the punishment of men who abuse/kill their wives/children

[Karma]

Domestic violence is a long standing social ill of our society...we have the highest rate of occurrence for child abuse and spousal abuse world wide. During the 50's and 60's this was tolerable as long as it was kept "behind closed doors". In the 70's the feminist movement was the beginning of the fighting back against this but it really wasnt until the 80's...when "battered wife syndrome" was finally acknowledged by mental health experts as well as the courts, ALONG with the tragic case of Elisabeth Steinberg from Ohio in 1987 that it seemed America was willing to face this issue as a society. Laws were passed making it easier for women to seek protection from their abusers as well as allowing teachers, police and medical personnel to intervene on behalf of children who were being abused. Movies like “The Burning Bed” (based on a true story of a woman in Michigan, starring Farrah Fawcett) also gave a terrifying and heart wrenching face to this problem.


Statistics show that as of today, every 30 minutes, over 800 women and children are attacked by husbands/parents in a physically abusive way. In the case of women… case studies and statistics show if there is no intervention on her behalf or the man is not stopped…she WILL be killed. Cases like O.J. Simpson ;where clearly he got away with not only abusing his wife for many years but also got away with KILLING her make me wonder….is the PUNISHMENT given to abusers harsh enough? Should we seek the death penalty for men who have a pattern of violent abuse to their wives/girlfriends/children…and the result of that abuse is the death of the victim? I PERSONALLY think we should seek the death penalty in cases like this….what do you think?

 

[Tempest]

In most states the police won't do shit for you if there's no evidence of abuse...because really, anyone can say "i'm being abused, help me!" just to get their parent/partner in jail, which has made the law rather lax about these situations and it really just sucks.

I'm kinda sketchy on the death penalty...I mean I know it's harsh to just off them because of it even though they deserve it, but killing them isn't going to make the world stop abusing, nor will it help the "do not kill" lesson the government is trying to preach. Then again, life sentences doesn't help either as prisons are becoming vastly overflooded with criminals and prolonging the shortage of food problem. So either way, it's kind of a lose-lose situation but I believe they DO deserve a higher punishment that just like "3 years in jail, then you can go free to mass murder more little children because we think you've learned your lesson already"...yeah, that's just stupid to me lol.

 

[Clara Oswald]

What they need to do is bring back public executions lol - put the fear of punishment back into people...

 

[Karma]

In most states the police won't do shit for you if there's no evidence of abuse...because really, anyone can say "i'm being abused, help me!" just to get their parent/partner in jail, which has made the law rather lax about these situations and it really just sucks.

I'm kinda sketchy on the death penalty...I mean I know it's harsh to just off them because of it even though they deserve it, but killing them isn't going to make the world stop abusing, nor will it help the "do not kill" lesson the government is trying to preach. Then again, life sentences doesn't help either as prisons are becoming vastly overflooded with criminals and prolonging the shortage of food problem. So either way, it's kind of a lose-lose situation but I believe they DO deserve a higher punishment that just like "3 years in jail, then you can go free to mass murder more little children because we think you've learned your lesson already"...yeah, that's just stupid to me lol.

what states are you referring to amy? here in michigan alone...if someone calls 911 for a domestic violence situation and the police arrive...SOMEONE is going to jail. The same thing in Texas (according to a friend of mine that lives out there)

i dont think we'll ever truly rid the world of its various social ills...but taking a stronger, hardline approach to this would definately deter people like O.J. Simpson or this man here in detroit named Bernard Kelly, who last year,BEAT his 3 year old daughter to DEATH because he didnt want to have to pay child support! how DEPRAVED and SICK is that? Michigan does not have the death penalty but if ever there were a time to adopt that in this state..i think THAT case would certainly be as good as any. Bernard Kelly's sentencing was just handed down last month...but even though he was found guilty of first degree murder and all other charges...for several of the charges he was convicted of, he'll receive life in prison...and two of those life sentences are with out the possibility of parole..and for the weapons charge he was found guilty of (he shot two daycare workers intending to kill them before he killed his daughter) he gets another 2 year sentence. instead of WASTING tax payers dollars on a man who has NO remorse..i think we should KILL HIM!

Men like him, OJ Simpson and others...who do these things and think they can get away with them need to be shown that its intolerable. every thirty minutes...800 women are attacked...i dont know the exact statistic for children...but its probably worse. The death penalty for those who kill their children/spouses by way of domestic violence would SURELY send a message to others across the country who are guilty of the same thing.

 

[Tempest]

what states are you referring to amy? here in michigan alone...if someone calls 911 for a domestic violence situation and the police arrive...SOMEONE is going to jail. The same thing in Texas (according to a friend of mine that lives out there)

California, not in all of texas - some cities hold to the proof rule, arizona does it, oregon, and a few others. It's a commonly abused law, just like sexual harassment in the work office has become abused over the years...people threatening just for the hell of it or for blackmail. I think the rate for children is something like 1800+, i remember it's really high.

And lmao Vil, that would sure send a message all right lol.

 

[Black Widow]

I for one.... think domestic abuse is the LOWEST of low... and I despise the people who try to excuse it by saying 'oh well they were abused themselves, they cant help it'

the HELL they can't. the choice to ABUSE your wife or children... is THEIRS to make. The idea that men routinely get away with this kind of thing..... makes my skin crawl and infuriates me to no end. I am a strongwilled woman...... if a man ever hit me.... I'd leave him... if he tried to make a HABIT of it... i'd likely KILL him... but that's just me. Ive seen these trials of women who have killed their husbands/boyfriends in self defense, being charged with MURDER... it sickens me that they are prosecuting women when if the POLICE had done something... it could have been prevented.

These men.... they dont DESERVE to be out in society, inflicting physical and psychological pain on other people... prison doesn't SOLVE this type of depravity... but I dont believe prison solves much of ANYTHING.... rapists, murderer, and the men who abuse their wifes/girlfriends and children.. these people dont STOP, even after prison... they wait... or they dont get caught for a while. the death penalty sends a strong message...

 

[Shadowsfall]

Illinois and Lousianna are really bad about protecting abused women. They have no problem with trying to take your kids away though if they think they're being abused. But if you're an abused woman in IL or LA then you're fucked. My mom's ex husband was abusive toward her and the cops were called several times for it, but in Lousianna they'd arrest him and seem to let him go the same night. In IL the cops would come out and basically warn him. They didn't seem to care that my mom was getting abused. So I see what Tempest is saying about them not doing shit for you. Even in states where there's a law that they will take someone to jail, it doesn't always work out that way.

I don't think that there should be a death penalty for it though... as much as I would LOVE to see my mom's ex die for all the shit that he put my family through. But I definitely agree that there should be more then just a slap on the wrist and being told not to do it again. I think that, in anything involving the death penalty, it's too much like an easy out. A man kills someone and gets the death penalty, he doesn't have to spend the rest of his life dealing with the consequences of his actions. Make them sit in prison for the rest of their life...

 

[ZorCrow]

As I have said before, I am not for abortion, war or the death penalty. So I say no death penalty for wife beaters. Look women abuse their husbands as well should they be given the death penalty? I mean come on, it's assault they should be charged with assault and the woman should get out of the trouble of the relationship. A lot of men have gotten physical with their wives during the course of a marriage it doesn't mean they are wife beaters. A lot of wives have assaulted their husbands.

I am not for spousal abuse, but what folks need to do is be careful about the people they marry or enter relationships with, and folks need to get out of those relationships and get conseling. Also, how come you have to consel a woman to leave an abusive man but they leave good man at the drop of a penny?

Life don't make sense sometimes. . .

 

[Shadowsfall]

As I have said before, I am not for abortion, war or the death penalty. So I say no death penalty for wife beaters. Look women abuse their husbands as well should they be given the death penalty? I mean come on, it's assault they should be charged with assault and the woman should get out of the trouble of the relationship. A lot of men have gotten physical with their wives during the course of a marriage it doesn't mean they are wife beaters. A lot of wives have assaulted their husbands.

I am not for spousal abuse, but what folks need to do is be careful about the people they marry or enter relationships with, and folks need to get out of those relationships and get conseling. Also, how come you have to consel a woman to leave an abusive man but they leave good man at the drop of a penny?

Life don't make sense sometimes. . .

Sometimes it isn't as easy as just "getting out of the trouble of the relationship." And you can't predict how your relationship is going to be forever. In over 85% of domestic violence cases, the relationship starts out as a normal relationship would. Getting out of an abusive relationship depends on the circumstances of the relationship. Sometimes it is just as easy as packing up your shit and leaving, but other times, the other person doesn't always seem to want to let them go. It's usually about control in abusive relationships, the man (or woman) think that they have complete control over their partner and when they realize that they don't, they get abusive to give themselves back that control. When their partner tries to leave, that's definitely a loss of their control and they fell that they can't lose that so they go to extremes to keep their control.

If you try to leave an abusive relationship once and you're husband/wife/whatever nearly kills you while you're in the process and the system isn't really doing much to help you out... are you really going to keep trying? I realize that it sounds stupid for someone to stay in a relationship like that and everyone always seems to say "well why didn't you just leave?" but until you're actually in a situation like that or you have to live with someone else in a situation like that then it's hard to comprehend exactly why the person stays.

 

[Foxfire]

my own misery

I'm all about justice so of course I say yay to the death penalty. In fact, I'd love to have all the prison beat the shit out of them!

I myself have been a victim of abuse, although its my own private secret except for Jess who I've told. I had an abusive ex who was mentally and once in a great while physically abusive. I put up with EVERYTHING and for what?! To have such low self esteem, which in turn....forced me into self injury aka cutting. Again, another secret of mine, I'd take a shard of glass and run it into my forearms. I did it because I felt like I deserved to be hurt for my crimes, when in fact I did nothing wrong. My ex would even try and ISOLATE me from my friends and family. And being naive I went along with it. I was stronger but I allowed my ex to have such....power over me. Looking back I don't know why I did it, but at the time I thought I needed my ex, not wanting to be alone.

I didn't realize it until one night my ex shoved me off the bed and I smacked the back of my skull on the dresser. And my ex just LAUGHED! No, "are you okay?" Nothing....I knew that wasn't a relationship at all, this was when I was 19.

My mother was in an abusive relationship before she met my Dad. My older brother's father, DonSr., a marine who was insane. He did everything to my mother, kicking her when she was pregnant with my brother and even....placing a gun to her head and pulling the trigger. Luckily there was no bullets, that is until he fired again at the ceiling and this time a bullet went through the ceiling. My mother left him and to this day doesn't take shit from anyone!

My mother and I have each grown from our personal experiences and now neither one of us don't take any shit. I guess that's why I explode at everyone....even the small trivial things. I still have faint scars on my arms from the cutting. I remember wearing long sleeve shirts in the summer, I really was a mess.....I can't believe I'm telling this, but this board is like home to me and so I feel comfortable.

Anyway though, I've grown and I no longer, "cut" or anything. And my current partner, Rogue aka Jessica treats me like a Princess. But there are times when I do something wrong, I feel like I should be punished. It'll always be there with me.

But anyway I feel that abusive people need to be put to death for the pain and misery they put us through. I fully believe in an eye for an eye.

 

[ZorCrow]

Sometimes it isn't as easy as just "getting out of the trouble of the relationship." And you can't predict how your relationship is going to be forever. In over 85% of domestic violence cases, the relationship starts out as a normal relationship would. Getting out of an abusive relationship depends on the circumstances of the relationship. Sometimes it is just as easy as packing up your shit and leaving, but other times, the other person doesn't always seem to want to let them go. It's usually about control in abusive relationships, the man (or woman) think that they have complete control over their partner and when they realize that they don't, they get abusive to give themselves back that control. When their partner tries to leave, that's definitely a loss of their control and they fell that they can't lose that so they go to extremes to keep their control.

If you try to leave an abusive relationship once and you're husband/wife/whatever nearly kills you while you're in the process and the system isn't really doing much to help you out... are you really going to keep trying? I realize that it sounds stupid for someone to stay in a relationship like that and everyone always seems to say "well why didn't you just leave?" but until you're actually in a situation like that or you have to live with someone else in a situation like that then it's hard to comprehend exactly why the person stays.

Good Response. I disagree Folks leave folks everyday who aren't in abusive relationships. But you are right it's a lot more complex than that. It's like telling a drunk "stop drinking."

 

[Lauren Collins]

Short post.

I definitely don't think it's right at all for men to do that... I mean, who would? Also, a woman somewhere gets physically abused by her husband/partner every 9 seconds. I think that was right. Either 6 or 9. Saw it on a Lifetime movie. haha.

But then again, I'm anti death penalty for everyone. I just don't think it should be our right to decide who gets to live and die. We're all equal, and I don't think any human should be in charge of another's fate. Plus, life in prison is so much worse than death to me. Death is like letting them off easy. I would much rather die than spend my whole life in utter horror and/or seclusion.

 

[Shadowsfall]

Good Response. I disagree Folks leave folks everyday who aren't in abusive relationships. But you are right it's a lot more complex than that. It's like telling a drunk "stop drinking."

Every break-up depends upon the situation for it, but I get what you're saying. If you just leave someone just because you feel like leaving them then it's a really lame excuse.

 

[MirandaThePanda]

I think abusive men need to be taken out, sodomized, and shot.

Any man who beats on a woman is not a man. And all the women who are in jail for shooting thier husbands and boyfriends because they were getting beat up I say they should go free.

 

[Black Widow]

But then again, I'm anti death penalty for everyone. I just don't think it should be our right to decide who gets to live and die. We're all equal, and I don't think any human should be in charge of another's fate. Plus, life in prison is so much worse than death to me. Death is like letting them off easy. I would much rather die than spend my whole life in utter horror and/or seclusion.

Yes... and while you DO raise a good point.... the fact of the matter is... our penitentiaries are getting more and more crowded as we speak.... and with BUSH spending the nation's money like its GOING OUT OF STYLE.... we cant really AFFORD to feed, clothe and provide living space for these criminals for the rest of their lives. Rapists, murderers, child molesters... some of these bastards dont DESERVE to spend the rest of their lives reminiscing about what they've done. I'm sick of the self-righteous bullshit: "If we kill them, we'll be as bad as they are" HORSESHIT. If we kill em.... we'll be better off without them.... and that's one more abusive bastard we dont have to support with our taxes for the rest of his life.

 

[Karma]

people can wax philisophical and idealistic on this topic in the name of "human rights" and "equality" and some flawed idea of justice....but if you live through this, know someone who has gone through or LOST someone to domestic violence.....your tune WILL change.

go research the case of Elisabeth Steinberg from 1987...read about how her father mercilessly beat the hell out of her, burned her with cigarettes, starved her, locked her in a closet...and ultimately KILLED her. Read about O.J. Simpson and how when the police came to his house while he was BEATING Nicole Brown..instead of helping her...they asked HIM for autographs! EVERY 30 minutes...800 women in this country are attacked by their husbands, boyfriends or a man in their life......and the same applies for children.

men like this..do NOT DESERVE equality of the law. when a man kills a woman or a child through physical abuse/assault..HE needs to be killed himself. TO HELL with the "killing makes us no better than them" argument. TELL THAT to the person who DIED by the hands of the monster who beat them to death!

Bernard Kelly...the bastard here in detroit who beat his 3 year old daughter to death..CRUSHED HER SKULL ...ALL because he didnt want to pay child support. are you telling me HE doesnt deserve to die? "thinking about what he did" isnt apt punishment..because he has no remorse. he didnt CARE and he's not going to care. and so now...michigan tax payers will waste millions of dollars to keep this wretch alive in prison..while "human rights" advocates lobby for him to get television, the right to get a degree in prison and whatever else. IS THIS a fair punishment for a man who crushed his daughter's skull?? as she screamed and cried in pain wondernig why her father did this!? i think NOT!

men who are abusers need to be checked before they kill...BUT since most of them are not (even with the reforms in laws today) then those who kill a woman or child because of it...need to be killed themselves...to hell with the moral high ground....sometimes the BEST justice..is VENGEANCE and these men ALWAYS think they will get away with what they did....that somehow they had a RIGHT to do this. someone needs to show the error of their ways...by purging them of their existence.

 

[Timeless Beautie]

My opinion on men who beat women or children is... I have mixed opinions. My dad use to beat my mom when I was a little girl and it took a whole team of cops to drag him off of her once. Now I love my dad and he's never layed a hand on me (He be dead in the next 24 hour if he did... I've got to many male figures in my life who would go after him if he did). Since then he took anger management classes and has learned how to control his rage. But that's not always the case.... underneath of it all my dad was a good man and he had a conscience, but then like Spellbinder said some men have no conscience and that guy cared more about himself then the innocent life of his daughter. I under no circumstances think that it's okay to hit women or children. If I have sons I'll beat the living day lights out of them if I hear they ever hit a child or their wives or girlfriends. They'll know better. I dunno where I stand on the subject. My dad was redeemed so I really don't know.

 

[ZorCrow]

Mr. I under no circumstances think that it's okay to hit women or children.

I totally disagree with that logic. You have to defend yourself,
if some woman is going to shoot me or my partner (I am in law enforcement) I would have to use force to stop her, the same for kids. Also if a person is attacking me, I don't discriminate, race, creed, color, origin, religion, or gender they are getting stopped.

We have to realize that children also should be spanked for corrective and discipline measures, but not abused. Too much liberal thinking has ruined our society, when more Americans spanked kids we didn't have columbines nor teens killing their parents at the same rate.

 

[Timeless Beautie]

I know men who are scared shitless to hit a woman. My ex boyfriend said he'd rather get his ass kick then hit a woman. But I agree to you to some degree.... I believe self defense is a valid reason, but my point was it wrong when they cross the line. And spanking children is okay if your choice.... but when you leave a mark or bruise I consider it abuse. When I was about 10 my mom let a family friend and his family move in with us for a period of time. When he would discipline his daughter he'd belt them until they're bottoms were black and blue. And most of the things they did weren't that bad. My mom had to put her foot down and tell him that he needed to check his temper before disciplining his daughters. I think that's wrong. One smack is enough, but when you leave a mark it's a whole different story.

 

[MorningStar]

We have to realize that children also should be spanked for corrective and discipline measures, but not abused. Too much liberal thinking has ruined our society, when more Americans spanked kids we didn't have columbines nor teens killing their parents at the same rate.

I disagree. The more you hit children the worse the relationship between you and your child gets, and the more they rebel. My mother made the mistake of trying to hit me. What she got was a slap right back, and a disobedient child for the next week. If she'd have tried to REASON with me instead of being brute and animalistic, then I would have reacted civlly in kind. Peoples' mistake is to assume that children are animals who can't understand anymore than violence. In actual fact parents should try to build up a friendly relationship between their children and NOT beat them and drive a wedge between them. Then there'd be no NEED to hit the men since they would never have laid a hand on their child in the first place.