Karma
Heart Attack
I barely comment on issues regarding the Hulk. Like Psylocke, he's been changed, transmorgrified, split, merged, etc etc so many times and because I never got into him that much outside of crossovers, appearences in the Avengers in later years etc I didnt have much of an opinion on him.
That changed when I joined Marvel Directory some years ago. I learned alot about him there and then when I met Rampage (who im sure will be the first to reply here LOL) i learned even more.
I recently read World War Hulk (the x-men crossover) and x-force (the latest incarnation) vs red hulk. prior to that i read the illuminati in TPB and ive read some summaries online.
So now here's what I want to say about the Hulk and anyone can (and I hope will) respond.
How is a character like Binary or Phoenix considered "TOO POWERFULL" and "has to be cotained" but this character isnt?!
I actually AGREED with the illuminati's position on banishing the hulk from earth. he's a danger and a menace and when he's in full posession of his mental faculties of bruce banner...he's a real arrogant S.O.B.
mind you, the illuminati was horrible concept to me. they picked some of the most flawed, hypocritical men EVER to make this group (and not one woman was present) and in recent years...there have been PLENTY of real, sustained examples why NONE of these men is "the best their is" at their respective fields of expertise.
When reading World War Hulk I was totally put off by him. Any respect i had for the power he is now portrayed as having evaporated as I watched him brutalize children, women...ANYONE who "dared to defy" him on his self righteous, self serving quest for revenge following the loss of his wife/unborn child. the kicker was that xavier wasnt even a voter in the descision to banish hulk from earth! kudos to xavier for being HONEST and saying he WOULD have voted in favor of it though. hulk, for all his intellect doesnt seem to realize he CONSTANTLY prooves why he's a danger and a menace. I also noticed how RACIST he seemed to be toward the mutants. Funny how he cries about being judged and looked down on but did the same thing to others.
It was POWERFULL the way Cessily(Mercury) stood up to him. She was essentially the LAST standing X-man between him and Xavier and though she couldnt physically stop him (though she gave a valiant effort) she shut him down, SHAMED him even as she not only pointed out how SELFISH he was but that THEY (the x-men) were NOT wrong for defending their mentor, THEMSELVES and their lives. She showed him the graveyard of all the depowered children that had been murdered by the purifiers and told him of the harsh reality the mutants faced following M Day. Her heartfelt, bold and utter REBUKE of him was more powerfull than anything the x-men and related teams had thrown at him and in a MOMENT of sanity, he backed off and LEFT.
I then read X-force vs. Red Hulk. The Red Hulk is as big a bastard as the green hulk! First he goes after Domino intending to murder her and while she was able to use her power to survive and escape him...he came across as such a bully. hardly lending to his so called crusade against Banner. he had his band of lackeys (THUNDRA AND ELEKTRA among them) and Domino saught the aid of her fellow X-force team. Wolverine gave red hulk what for and in the story it became clear that pretty much everybody on the red hulk's side was being manipulated by somebody else.
In the end this Red Hulk seemed to be as big a tool AND victim of his own anger as Bruce B. is When it finally clicked as to who the red hulk was, i was like "oh hell no" and put the book down LOL!
so with all that said i want to move on to the next part of this- who I think CAN beat the Hulk (green specifically but red too) and why. we've done this before but im gonna use CURRENT characters this time. Before i start, i should mention that i noticed ALOT of heavy hitters were ABSENT from the WWH/Xmen cross over. Storm is one of the most obvious. Psylocke, Rogue, Bishop, Marvel Girl III, Havok etc. then there's Dazzler (she appeared on panel, along with Captain Britain but they were TOO FAR away to get there in time) , they had the "New X-men" along with the "Astonishing" line up, some of X-factor & some of the Uncanny X-men but no "New Mutants" (particularly Magik, Cannonball or Sunspot).
Sentry- evidently he's the failsafe. I dont know a whole lot about him and none of the titles ive read/currently follow really feature him. BUT from what ive seen...he's one they call when "all else fails". It was rather comedic when he and Bruce both reverted to human form after spending themeselves in battle, that Bruce got the LAST punch in, beating Reynolds. But even so, look what it took to get to that point.
Phoenix- speaks for herself
Cypher- before you laugh, you'd have to understand that upon his recent return (Necrosha) his power was changed in a subtle but KEY way and now he can read EVERYTHING (including violence) as language and can find a way to override it. He single handedly overpowered the future timeline Master Mold in combat and SHUT IT (along with an army of Nimrods) DOWN in the x-men 2nd coming storyline and prior to that, he took down his own team of new mutants by himself - with the exception of Magik. You would have to have read it to really appreciate it but im not joking when I say his power and the potential ways to use/apply it have opened up to "omega level" proportions now.
Warlock- again, displaying a much updated power table. his ability to absorb an entire army of "the right" soldiers and then overpower and destroy cameron hodge showed that the techo organic virus is not to be overlooked. he single handedly saved his team in "the 2nd coming".
X-23- Bishop said it himself. She's BETTER than Wolverine and having had the chance to read up on her in the last few months in various storylines...it's TRUE. He was TRAINED to kill...she was BORN into it. This girl is all kinds of awesome and while I initially dismissed her (mainly because i started to grow tired of the same "fan boys" on MD always trying to tell everyone else who was or who wasnt worth paying attention to and that was during the time I wasnt reading as actively as i had once before or since) i've come to see she IS truly one of Marvel's DEADLIEST AND it should be noted that SHE was one of the FEW (beside ShadowCat) who battled Hulk in WWH and INJURED him to a degree that it not only staggered him but he needed time to recover from it. Wolvie tried copying her later but it wasnt quite the same effect. X-23 fights/thinks WAY AHEAD of her foes. She's not afraid to go balls to the wall.
M- she too joined the battle against the Hulk and pointed out the fact she was invulnerable. He REMOVED her (because that's all he could do) from the battle and while I dont think she ALONE could beat him, her powers and her execution of them would make her a much needed/wanted person in the fight against him. She would LAST and not be put down like some others.
Juggernaunt- he's beaten Hulk before. He joined the battle in WWH and the first one went to Hulk because Cain was trying to abstain from the true power of Cyttorak but when he gave in and took that power? He came back and WENT IN on the Hulk and you could see panel to panel that Juggs was beating Hulk back. It was only Xavier calling for Cain to stop (to keep from destroying the mansion's foundation) that Hulk had a shot in once again simply REMOVING him (not beating) from the battle. I believe Juggs was on his way to pounding the Hulk into submission there again.
Moondragon- Neither Xavier, nor Karma nor the White Queen could really do anything w/ the hulk but MOONDRAGON is 10 x more powerfull than Xavier as a telepath, as well as a vicious fighter like M but to a much higher degree. Outside of Phoenix, she's my pick for a psychic BEST suited to go against the Hulk.
Magik- as teleporters go, few are as special as Magik, especially as she appears currently. Her mutant power puts her "off the charts" for speed and Her power as a sorceress consistently ranks her among Marvel's top 10. One disc...split him in half and send one part somewhere completely unfathomable (sun, black hole, limbo, another timeline, the other hemisphere). OR take him to Limbo where she is sorceress surpreme and can literally "do ANYTHING" with her magick.
Sage- again, not somebody who would beat him down one on one physically but as a living super computer, she has the power to calculate solutions to ANY scenario. It was SHE who enabled the X-men to beat the UNBEATABLE "Fury". As a master tactician, strategist and being posessed of beyond genius intellect, Sage would no doubt know/find out everything there is to know about Hulk and find a way to his defeat and rest assured, she'd have PLENTY of traps and people to use against him along the way. No doubt it would take TIME but based on her actions on panel, id say she'd have a logical shot at bringing about his defeat.
Franklin Richards- forget the scarlet witch, proteus and the like...its all about Franklin and if traumatized enough (say by the sight of hulk hurting/killing his parents), i do believe Franklin would do what everyone wants..."make the hulk go away".
That changed when I joined Marvel Directory some years ago. I learned alot about him there and then when I met Rampage (who im sure will be the first to reply here LOL) i learned even more.
I recently read World War Hulk (the x-men crossover) and x-force (the latest incarnation) vs red hulk. prior to that i read the illuminati in TPB and ive read some summaries online.
So now here's what I want to say about the Hulk and anyone can (and I hope will) respond.
How is a character like Binary or Phoenix considered "TOO POWERFULL" and "has to be cotained" but this character isnt?!
I actually AGREED with the illuminati's position on banishing the hulk from earth. he's a danger and a menace and when he's in full posession of his mental faculties of bruce banner...he's a real arrogant S.O.B.
mind you, the illuminati was horrible concept to me. they picked some of the most flawed, hypocritical men EVER to make this group (and not one woman was present) and in recent years...there have been PLENTY of real, sustained examples why NONE of these men is "the best their is" at their respective fields of expertise.When reading World War Hulk I was totally put off by him. Any respect i had for the power he is now portrayed as having evaporated as I watched him brutalize children, women...ANYONE who "dared to defy" him on his self righteous, self serving quest for revenge following the loss of his wife/unborn child. the kicker was that xavier wasnt even a voter in the descision to banish hulk from earth! kudos to xavier for being HONEST and saying he WOULD have voted in favor of it though. hulk, for all his intellect doesnt seem to realize he CONSTANTLY prooves why he's a danger and a menace. I also noticed how RACIST he seemed to be toward the mutants. Funny how he cries about being judged and looked down on but did the same thing to others.
It was POWERFULL the way Cessily(Mercury) stood up to him. She was essentially the LAST standing X-man between him and Xavier and though she couldnt physically stop him (though she gave a valiant effort) she shut him down, SHAMED him even as she not only pointed out how SELFISH he was but that THEY (the x-men) were NOT wrong for defending their mentor, THEMSELVES and their lives. She showed him the graveyard of all the depowered children that had been murdered by the purifiers and told him of the harsh reality the mutants faced following M Day. Her heartfelt, bold and utter REBUKE of him was more powerfull than anything the x-men and related teams had thrown at him and in a MOMENT of sanity, he backed off and LEFT.
I then read X-force vs. Red Hulk. The Red Hulk is as big a bastard as the green hulk! First he goes after Domino intending to murder her and while she was able to use her power to survive and escape him...he came across as such a bully. hardly lending to his so called crusade against Banner. he had his band of lackeys (THUNDRA AND ELEKTRA among them) and Domino saught the aid of her fellow X-force team. Wolverine gave red hulk what for and in the story it became clear that pretty much everybody on the red hulk's side was being manipulated by somebody else.
In the end this Red Hulk seemed to be as big a tool AND victim of his own anger as Bruce B. is When it finally clicked as to who the red hulk was, i was like "oh hell no" and put the book down LOL!
so with all that said i want to move on to the next part of this- who I think CAN beat the Hulk (green specifically but red too) and why. we've done this before but im gonna use CURRENT characters this time. Before i start, i should mention that i noticed ALOT of heavy hitters were ABSENT from the WWH/Xmen cross over. Storm is one of the most obvious. Psylocke, Rogue, Bishop, Marvel Girl III, Havok etc. then there's Dazzler (she appeared on panel, along with Captain Britain but they were TOO FAR away to get there in time) , they had the "New X-men" along with the "Astonishing" line up, some of X-factor & some of the Uncanny X-men but no "New Mutants" (particularly Magik, Cannonball or Sunspot).
Sentry- evidently he's the failsafe. I dont know a whole lot about him and none of the titles ive read/currently follow really feature him. BUT from what ive seen...he's one they call when "all else fails". It was rather comedic when he and Bruce both reverted to human form after spending themeselves in battle, that Bruce got the LAST punch in, beating Reynolds. But even so, look what it took to get to that point.
Phoenix- speaks for herself
Cypher- before you laugh, you'd have to understand that upon his recent return (Necrosha) his power was changed in a subtle but KEY way and now he can read EVERYTHING (including violence) as language and can find a way to override it. He single handedly overpowered the future timeline Master Mold in combat and SHUT IT (along with an army of Nimrods) DOWN in the x-men 2nd coming storyline and prior to that, he took down his own team of new mutants by himself - with the exception of Magik. You would have to have read it to really appreciate it but im not joking when I say his power and the potential ways to use/apply it have opened up to "omega level" proportions now.
Warlock- again, displaying a much updated power table. his ability to absorb an entire army of "the right" soldiers and then overpower and destroy cameron hodge showed that the techo organic virus is not to be overlooked. he single handedly saved his team in "the 2nd coming".
X-23- Bishop said it himself. She's BETTER than Wolverine and having had the chance to read up on her in the last few months in various storylines...it's TRUE. He was TRAINED to kill...she was BORN into it. This girl is all kinds of awesome and while I initially dismissed her (mainly because i started to grow tired of the same "fan boys" on MD always trying to tell everyone else who was or who wasnt worth paying attention to and that was during the time I wasnt reading as actively as i had once before or since) i've come to see she IS truly one of Marvel's DEADLIEST AND it should be noted that SHE was one of the FEW (beside ShadowCat) who battled Hulk in WWH and INJURED him to a degree that it not only staggered him but he needed time to recover from it. Wolvie tried copying her later but it wasnt quite the same effect. X-23 fights/thinks WAY AHEAD of her foes. She's not afraid to go balls to the wall.
M- she too joined the battle against the Hulk and pointed out the fact she was invulnerable. He REMOVED her (because that's all he could do) from the battle and while I dont think she ALONE could beat him, her powers and her execution of them would make her a much needed/wanted person in the fight against him. She would LAST and not be put down like some others.
Juggernaunt- he's beaten Hulk before. He joined the battle in WWH and the first one went to Hulk because Cain was trying to abstain from the true power of Cyttorak but when he gave in and took that power? He came back and WENT IN on the Hulk and you could see panel to panel that Juggs was beating Hulk back. It was only Xavier calling for Cain to stop (to keep from destroying the mansion's foundation) that Hulk had a shot in once again simply REMOVING him (not beating) from the battle. I believe Juggs was on his way to pounding the Hulk into submission there again.
Moondragon- Neither Xavier, nor Karma nor the White Queen could really do anything w/ the hulk but MOONDRAGON is 10 x more powerfull than Xavier as a telepath, as well as a vicious fighter like M but to a much higher degree. Outside of Phoenix, she's my pick for a psychic BEST suited to go against the Hulk.
Magik- as teleporters go, few are as special as Magik, especially as she appears currently. Her mutant power puts her "off the charts" for speed and Her power as a sorceress consistently ranks her among Marvel's top 10. One disc...split him in half and send one part somewhere completely unfathomable (sun, black hole, limbo, another timeline, the other hemisphere). OR take him to Limbo where she is sorceress surpreme and can literally "do ANYTHING" with her magick.
Sage- again, not somebody who would beat him down one on one physically but as a living super computer, she has the power to calculate solutions to ANY scenario. It was SHE who enabled the X-men to beat the UNBEATABLE "Fury". As a master tactician, strategist and being posessed of beyond genius intellect, Sage would no doubt know/find out everything there is to know about Hulk and find a way to his defeat and rest assured, she'd have PLENTY of traps and people to use against him along the way. No doubt it would take TIME but based on her actions on panel, id say she'd have a logical shot at bringing about his defeat.
Franklin Richards- forget the scarlet witch, proteus and the like...its all about Franklin and if traumatized enough (say by the sight of hulk hurting/killing his parents), i do believe Franklin would do what everyone wants..."make the hulk go away".
