Phoenix II vs. Hulk or WHO can be the Hulk?

[Karma]

Is this TOO one sided a battle? If it is, then say so lol.

Some people would suggest that Hulk is able to contend with cosmic powered beings.

If not Phoenix II (who is near the top of that ladder) then what about a herald of Galactus such as Nova or Silver Surfer or someone who was originally of earth but EQUAL to the power of a Herald of Galactus such as BINARY?

What about Moon Dragon who was at least 10 times more powerfull a telepath than Xavier? she's not a cosmic powered being, but at one point she was in the infinity MIND GEM and became a monumental threat.

Just wondering about some scenarios like this. I realize Phoenix II would pretty much annihlate Hulk but i'm sure RAMPAGE will find a way to argue his case against her in some way

 

[Rampage]

The Hulk has already defeated Silver Surfer several times. I would favor Phoenix in this one but his ability to contend with and defeat Sentry (as well as Black Bolt, the entirety of the world's superheroes on more than one occasion, and let's not forget Onslaught) would suggest that he is capable of defeating her in some cases.

 

[Karma]

now you know Sentry is no match for Phoenix II (remember...we're not talking about Phoenix IV lol) and didnt he STOP the Hulk after all?

and you yourself said that such powerfull characters as Invisible Woman were NOT involved in the battle against The Hulk so was it really the ENTIRETY of the earth bound heroes? Or was it one of those moments where they put in whoever they could think of to fill the pages (like what happened in Wolverine's comic when he faced down nearly every B, C and D list marvel character as he rampaged across NYC). and speaking of that, Was Doctor Strange or any other high level magick user involved? if so, to what extent?

Silver Surfer may be a bad example, as both Phoenix (III) AND Storm of put him on his ass too but I've often argued that Binary could handle Surfer (and a few people at times have agreed with me after MUCH in depth debate and discussion).

MUST we remember Onslaught? LOL the epitome of bad writing, and a glaring example of a desperate plot device? AND while he did face onslaught, he ALSO had to DIE in order to defeat him.

But its largely because of YOU that i even began wondering about Hulk's ability to fight against cosmic powered foes. so you could say that you indirectly inspired me to make this thread

i wouldnt use Sentry or Onslaught as indicators of whether or not someone could fight Phoenix II. at least not for the Hulk. just the title of "world breaker" puts him in a class by himself...more fiting of the attention of the "chaos bringer" or the "celestial starchilde"

i've changed the title of this thread because beyond Phoenix, i think there may be a few other select individuals that could deal with Hulk and we can discuss them all.

 

[Rampage]

I agree with the fact that Phoenix could beat him, wholeheartedly. At issue for me is how the battle wold commence. His healing ability would handle any physical damage, his mind was more than the match of Xavier's and Emma Frost did not even bother. He beat Strange, crushing his hands. He beat Black Bolt into a coma, who is widely understood and stated in the comic itself as the second most powerful being in the galaxy. Sentry, who he also beat, was number one. He also beat the Avengers and fantastic Four (no Sue, I believe), and the Juggernaut (who was re-powered fully) along with the X-men at ONCE.


Depending on how she decided to engage him, she could open herself to damage and possibly defeat by him. I would not have written this even last year, but they have kicked him up to a whole new level... I do still think her to be by far at an advantage in this, but this guy has been moved even beyond my fanboy dreams...I think that he could engage and defeat Binary at least half the time at his new levels.

 

[Karma]

I agree with the fact that Phoenix could beat him, wholeheartedly. At issue for me is how the battle wold commence. His healing ability would handle any physical damage, his mind was more than the match of Xavier's and Emma Frost did not even bother.

That's why i mentioned Moon Dragon, who was already 10 times more powerfull than Xavier WITHOUT the infinity mind gem. The only reason Xavier initially contained Phoenix II /Dark Phoenix was because "JEAN" helped him to do so. He himself admitted that he was losing that battle until she helped him. With all of Phoenix II's powers being cosmic in nature, they would surely test Hulk's abilities PAST the point of human endurance, that's assuming she didnt consume him with her fire at some point.

He beat Strange, crushing his hands. He beat Black Bolt into a coma, who is widely understood and stated in the comic itself as the second most powerful being in the galaxy. Sentry, who he also beat, was number one. He also beat the Avengers and fantastic Four (no Sue, I believe), and the Juggernaut (who was re-powered fully) along with the X-men at ONCE.

poor Stephen Strange. He often had a father like relationship with the Hulk, even allowing him to stay at his manor. what a pay back THAT was LOL! but then again, Strange has NEVER been "the best" magick user to me. his reputation is more like him resting on his laurels, especially when people Margali have beaten him time and again.

I understand that Sentry uses empathy (among other specific methods) to lull or pacify the hulk. I've never been able to ...accept Sentry. He came at a time when many other truly powerfull characters were written away or depowered in some way. He always seemed to be a glorified "Superman" more than anything else.

Blackbolt...isnt the one that Hulk beat down actually a skrull?

its clear that Hulk is instantly able to recover from most physical damage and is extremely resistant to most psychic attacks (again ,has he faced Moon Dragon?) BUT i havent read anything about his ability to fare against a well planed mystical attack. Doctor Strange was sloppy in his dealing with Scarlet Witch, he got his ass handed to him by Kulan Gath and Margali Szardos (not to mention Dormammu) and i just dont find him to be the BEST bench mark for an effective magick user in battle.

what about characters who have limitless speed charting? teleporters like Blink and Magik who could (for example) remove his organs, or eviscerate him, not to mention send him into the sun or a black hole.

Spiral? scrambling or DEPOWERING him? she had the strength to depower TWO teams at once.

and what about some MONOLITHIC threat like Summa Gorath or some other gigantic, powerfull force of that nature?

and you know what? the "Illuminati" must not be very bright or thorough, considering that their attempt to send hulk to an uninhabited planet FAILED due to a mechanical malfunction LOL! so much for the collective brain power THERE!

Depending on how she decided to engage him, she could open herself to damage and possibly defeat by him. I would not have written this even last year, but they have kicked him up to a whole new level... I do still think her to be by far at an advantage in this, but this guy has been moved even beyond my fanboy dreams...I think that he could engage and defeat Binary at least half the time at his new levels.

Phoenix would probably take him into space and fight him there (basing this on her actions in the past) and even if he destroyed her physical body, there's no way he could destroy her "raptor" form.

 

[Black King]

Several points to make:
The Illuminati had a smart idea but didn't see the wormhole that opened and brought Hulk to Sakaar in the future. Its been hinted at that if it wasn't for that one wormhole the plan would have worked and Hulk would have lived out his life in peace. One cosmic accident screwed the planet.

Stephen Strange could have used his magics to finish off the Hulk any memeber of the Illuminati could have killed him or send him away if they really worked on it. The only one that actively tried was Iron Man and the only reason he lost was that his SPIN tech weapon was stolen without him knowing. However because they're heroes they didn't try they tried to calm him or pacify him which just keep failing.

BTW his body is way way to reinforced Teleporters have to move his whole body or nothing. Even if it does manage to split him he heals and gets anger which screws over whoever tires much more than when they started.

 

[Karma]

Several points to make

Stephen Strange could have used his magics to finish off the Hulk any memeber of the Illuminati could have killed him or send him away if they really worked on it. The only one that actively tried was Iron Man and the only reason he lost was that his SPIN tech weapon was stolen without him knowing. However because they're heroes they didn't try they tried to calm him or pacify him which just keep failing.

i very much doubt that ANY ONE of the illuminati could have killed him. Some AMONG them, but certainly not Mister Fantastic or Xavier.

let you tell it, Stephen could do anything, and yet...time and again he's bested by something as simple as a RUSE and then he's put on the ropes. I maintain that if he's supposed to be "sorcerer supreme" then he SHOULD have disposed of the Hulk in any NUMBER of ways. as someone who PREFERS "magick users" in marvel and has been reading many of them for years...i just find him to be very overrated. now if they had wanted to put him down with a magick user, then ROMA would have been a logical option, she's a master sorceress who charted off the scales across the board.

BTW his body is way way to reinforced Teleporters have to move his whole body or nothing. Even if it does manage to split him he heals and gets anger which screws over whoever tires much more than when they started.

Blink has used her teleporting power to cripple cosmic beings such as the INBetweener. Has Hulk EVER fought a high end teleporter such as Blink, Magik or Spiral? We're not talking about someone like NIGHTCRAWLER who practically caused HIS OWN heart to explode when he tried to teleport a piece of NIMROD'S body away.

 

[Rampage]

He has also faced Dormammu and his sister Umar (even once being her lover and doing it WELL, although she tired him out, turning him back to Banner, lol) who are both more powerful than Strange and have only had success containing him. Depowering him has not been an option long-term for anyone as he is essentially one with his powers (at least recently, not always). Even as Banner he has shown control over his powers and if she does not burn him away to nothingness with her fire the first time, it will probably not work again.

Teleportation would work, but no force has shown sufficient to kill him, including unprotected space, a wormhole unprotected, and a blast from a being capable enslaving planets while sustained with several planets core energies.

Silver Surfer charts a 7 speed, and has a losing record against the Hulk.

He is pretty hard to completely put down, and it has not happened in a long time. He could, however, be temporarily contained...

 

[Black King]

i very much doubt that ANY ONE of the illuminati could have killed him. Some AMONG them, but certainly not Mister Fantastic or Xavier.

let you tell it, Stephen could do anything, and yet...time and again he's bested by something as simple as a RUSE and then he's put on the ropes. I maintain that if he's supposed to be "sorcerer supreme" then he SHOULD have disposed of the Hulk in any NUMBER of ways. as someone who PREFERS "magick users" in marvel and has been reading many of them for years...i just find him to be very overrated. now if they had wanted to put him down with a magick user, then ROMA would have been a logical option, she's a master sorceress who charted off the scales across the board.





Blink has used her teleporting power to cripple cosmic beings such as the INBetweener. Has Hulk EVER fought a high end teleporter such as Blink, Magik or Spiral? We're not talking about someone like NIGHTCRAWLER who practically caused HIS OWN heart to explode when he tried to teleport a piece of NIMROD'S body away.

Reed Richards makes Anti-Galactus weapons that work. If he tried he could have done it. Xavier never fought Hulk. He wasn't even around to vote to send him away but Hulk still came for him. The X-men just staved Hulk off until they could talk him down. If Xavier could get into his mind he could just force Hulk back to Banner than shot him in the head. Strange couldn't out right fight Hulk to the finish because of his position and the stain that it would leave on his soul and that got his hands broken. After that he brought out Zom and should have won but had too many people around him to worry about once he really started fighting hard and that got him beat.

The time Blink has encounter Hulk in was in Exiles so it wasn't the 616 version. She tried to pull the splicing trick but being from AoA she didn't know who he was and discovered very fast that he body is just too strong and That version was separated from Banner so he was even WEAKER then the 616 Hulk.

You know what I'm just going to out and say it WWH had massive jobbering for every (Earth) character that showed up in it. I could go through each battle and point out mistakes that shouldn't have been made and battles that should have went the other way.

 

[Karma]

Reed Richards makes Anti-Galactus weapons that work. If he tried he could have done it. Xavier never fought Hulk. He wasn't even around to vote to send him away but Hulk still came for him. The X-men just staved Hulk off until they could talk him down. If Xavier could get into his mind he could just force Hulk back to Banner than shot him in the head. Strange could out right fight Hulk to the finish because of his postion and the stain that it would leave on his soul and that got his hands broken. After that he brought out Zom and should have won but had too many people around him to worry about once he really started fighting hard and that got him beat.

but xavier WAS apart of the illuminati (as you told me). and you said "any one of them could".

furthermore Xavier had never been shown to be able to do anything with the Hulk even BEFORE "world war hulk", the only telepath that he seemed to be vulnerable too PRE "wwh" was JEAN GREY (and that's kind of surprising). It was through HER that he gained the new levels of power he needed to beat down Onslaught utterly. Xavier is another example of overrated reputation. He can't stack up to Moon Dragon and at alternate times has paled in comparison to Jean , Psylocke or the White Queen or even his own SON.

and you merely proove my point about Strange. he couldnt do the job himself, so if the sorcerer supreme (arguably) couldnt handle it, then they needed to get someone (or a group) who could.

what's the point of having someone weild magick if they are going to be so easily beaten? you may as well reference the Scarlet Witch for MOST of her time in print until Avengers Vol. III LOL!

The time Blink has encounter Hulk in was in Exiles so it wasn't the 616 version. She tried to pull the splicing trick but being from AoA she didn't know who he was and discovered very fast that he body is just too strong and That version was separated from Banner so he was even WEAKER then the 616 Hulk.

her javelines in theory would EASILY be able to remove a vital organ. even Rampage (the hulk FAN BOY of SG ) thinks that a teleporter would have a decent chance of dealing with him in some way.

Hulk's speed is comprable to spiderman or thor...not fast enough to evade a stepping disc which could BURY him in layers of time.

 

[Rampage]

Hulk's speed is comprable to spiderman or thor...not fast enough to evade a stepping disc which could BURY him in layers of time.

Hulk's speed per Marvel.com is a 7 out of 7, as is his strength, intelligence, and durability...it most likely would not work.