Ms. Marvel vs. Juggernaut

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Ms. Marvel, with the full compliment of her abilities vs. Juggernaut. One Marvel's (as they themselves labeled her) "Greatest aerial combatants" vs. one of the physically strongest and most agressive ground fighters. He's not limited by his inability to fly either.

Does Carol have a chance against Cain?

the setting is ancient roman Colleseum.
 
Since Juggernaut has been repowered to his full level and a little higher this battle is way too one sided. Ms Marvel can do all she wants but it doesn't mean a thing if she can't hurt Cain. Once she gets tired or Cain gets a lucky shot shes going down hard. This Juggernaut was toe to toe against the Hulk in his full rage in the WWH:X-men issue.
 
but Ms. Marvel having the full compliment of her power means being able to AUGMENT all her powers, including her strength which is at a base of 50-75 tons. She can theoretically go UP to class 100 range (which is what she was during her Binary phase). and her energy blasts are are not exactly a day at the beach. Dazzler has caused Juggs problems with HER laser blasts and this was back in the 80's before all the changes/power ups/power downs etc.

i just wondered because ms. marvel is a decorated warrior both on earth AND the kree empire. she's one of the most powerfull women on the planet and has taken on heavy hitters of her own ( like Hyperion) but i've never seen anyone discuss the idea of her fighting juggernaut.

I dont think there's any question though that if she were Binary through and through that she'd mop the floor with Juggs. But in her CURRENT form of Ms. Marvel (which is beyond the original incarnation in many crucial ways) she's still a heavy hitter on Marvel Earth.

Maybe she wouldnt beat him HANDS DOWN ...but in a 10 round fight, i cant imagine her LOSING straight out all 10 rounds.
 
but you said the fight is in a "ancient roman Colosseum" wheres she getting this energy to powerup? cause i don't think she can absorb Juggernaut's energy or even that many forms of magical energy.
 
i was just posing a question for the discussion. unless he produced some form of energy and directed it AT her, then no...in this scenario it wouldnt be a factor but it hasnt been stated anywhere that there's a form of energy she CANT absorb. she fought and absorbed the energy of 198 mutants with no problem....and there's no defined LIMIT of what type/how much energy she could absorb..which is why she nearly turned back into Binary at least ONCE since her current form of Ms. Marvel.
 
Spellbinder said:
unless he produced some form of energy and directed it AT her, then no...in this scenario it wouldnt be a factor
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then shes stuck at her base power for this fight going up against the same Juggernaut that stood against WWH: Hulk on equal footing (the same Hulk that took down the Avengers (New and Mighty) including Ms. Marvel with pretty much one shot each)

BTW 300th post hooray :dancers:
 
As Juggernaut is currently written, I have to agree with BK. The Juggernaut is the ONLY combatant to encounter the Hulk in WWH and survive relatively unscathed. The list of combatants who failed includes essentially EVERY major hero on Earth 616, many of them (including Danvers) as part of a team setup.

In fact I would not even give her a walkover as Binary, if the Hulk and Juggernaut 's relative power levels are to be believed. Th Hulk at his current level is not beatable by any Earth character except POSSIBLY Sentry and Thor. Danvers lies FAR below, definitely behind Juggs. Danvers main shot is to trick him somehow, a certainly attainable situation for her, but not one that gives her a consistent advantage.
 
Rampage said:
As Juggernaut is currently written, I have to agree with BK. The Juggernaut is the ONLY combatant to encounter the Hulk in WWH and survive relatively unscathed. The list of combatants who failed includes essentially EVERY major hero on Earth 616, many of them (including Danvers) as part of a team setup.
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i would just like to point out that a) i didnt go into this saying "Ms. Marvel wins hands down" or anything like that...i actually was just th inking of a scenario and decided to post it.

b) Juggernaut has returned to his classic form? well good..he needed to lol...BUT there are some characters that fought him and caused him a problem EVEN in that "classic form" , including Rogue and if Ms. Marvel Iin her current form) is beyond what Rogue was when SHE possessed "MM's" power set before...I personally think that's something to consider. Carol is a strategist, a warrior (on two worlds) and didnt get where she is by fighting foes ONLY "on her level" (Hyperion anyone?)




In fact I would not even give her a walkover as Binary, if the Hulk and Juggernaut 's relative power levels are to be believed. Th Hulk at his current level is not beatable by any Earth character except POSSIBLY Sentry and Thor. Danvers lies FAR below, definitely behind Juggs. Danvers main shot is to trick him somehow, a certainly attainable situation for her, but not one that gives her a consistent advantage.
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I know Hulk is YOUR guy, garrick lol....but please explain why you think BINARY wouldnt be able to handle Juggernaut or Hulk? of course it woulndt be a walk in the PARK for her, but the woman handed GLADIATOR his ass while in her Binary form and has he not been shown to treat Juggernaut like a cat's toy more than once?
 
The problem at this point is that both the Hulk and Juggernaut, as they were written in WWH 4, are essentially incapable of permanent harm and have strength levels that border on incalculable. While Binary is certainly Herald class and a mighty opponent, so now CLEARLY is the Hulk. In fact, his defeat of Black Bolt and Dr. Strange in a demon-empowered form are as impressive as any I have seen in years in comics. Danvers in WWH lasted less than 10 seconds with Hulk and even Binary would make a great match in my opinion. Not necessarily a Hulk win (definitely not a walkover), but I am having trouble at this point figuring out how she would beat him. Black Bolt blew a piece off the moon the size of Rhode Island with his scream, and the Hulk beat him almost to death after taking that full force.

The fact that Juggernaut withstood him speaks volumes about his power level, but I am certain that Binary should win due to her savvy. Hulk still dispatched Juggs with an 8th grade move.
 
Rampage said:
The problem at this point is that both the Hulk and Juggernaut, as they were written in WWH 4, are essentially incapable of permanent harm and have strength levels that border on incalculable. While Binary is certainly Herald class and a mighty opponent, so now CLEARLY is the Hulk. In fact, his defeat of Black Bolt and Dr. Strange in a demon-empowered form are as impressive as any I have seen in years in comics. Danvers in WWH lasted less than 10 seconds with Hulk and even Binary would make a great match in my opinion. Not necessarily a Hulk win (definitely not a walkover), but I am having trouble at this point figuring out how she would beat him. Black Bolt blew a piece off the moon the size of Rhode Island with his scream, and the Hulk beat him almost to death after taking that full force.

The fact that Juggernaut withstood him speaks volumes about his power level, but I am certain that Binary should win due to her savvy. Hulk still dispatched Juggs with an 8th grade move.
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Binary channels just about every form of energy and has an unlimited potential. if anyone could find a way it would be HER. Blackbolt may have torn the moon partially assunder but BINARY stopped the SUN from exploding. having class 100+ strength and being able to exist in space UNPROTECTED pretty much indicate her durability. and she'd need EVERY BIT of it i'm sure to deal with Hulk but i'm glad you agree she'd be a good candidate to fight him.

I hate Doctor Strange...if i were going to pit a magick user against Hulk, i would choose Roma, Margali Zsardos or someone elsewho is his equal or BETTER (as both those two are). It's not the first time he's been overwhelmed by someone in a universe where TYPICALLY MAGICK always was a viable option to subdue someone with extreme PHYSICAL power.

in the end, I just wanted to talk about the ways that Ms. Marvel (in her current form) could deal with the Juggernaut. "classic form" or not...he's been felled by some unlikely characters and with Carol righfully back in action at the forefront of 616's heroes gallery in marvel, since those two havent crossed (anywhere that i've read in 20 years) it was an idea that came to mind.

ANOTHER thread topic might be: who could deal with the hulk and HOW.
 
The more I think of it, the key for Danvers is outwitting Juggs. The problem is harming him. She could do it, as long as she is VERY careful.

As for the Hulk, I just don't know...and even I am not trying to be THIS much of a homer. He is simply beyond what I could have imagined even a year ago.
 
Juggernaut has returned to his classic form? well good..he needed to lol...BUT there are some characters that fought him and caused him a problem EVEN in that "classic form" , including Rogue and if Ms. Marvel Iin her current form) is beyond what Rogue was when SHE possessed "MM's" power set before...I personally think that's something to consider. Carol is a strategist, a warrior (on two worlds) and didnt get where she is by fighting foes ONLY "on her level" (Hyperion anyone?)
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but thats the thing this isn't his classic form. At the levels hes at not hes hundreds if not thousands of times stronger. Cain as he is now is so beyond his classic form that you might not even call them the same person. Even the master Strategist can't win a battle against a foe they can't harm.

if she was Binary however the fight would be different but still a stalemate as her power is almost unlimited he can't hurt her but also his invulnerability is magically based (at levels never seen before) so she wouldn't be able to hurt him either. they only be able to knock each other around for eternity.
 
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