Midterm Elections [my personal thoughts]

[Karma]

I hope we ALL see the necessity of VOTING in this midterm election.

What do you think about this mutation of the GOP known as the Tea Party and how its pulling the GOP even further to the "right"? Ive been reading/watching news and info on some of the GOP/Tea Party gubermentorial and senate nominees and some of the things they believe and want to push for are downright SCAREY.

I don't care if you are for/against the Dems...be independant, be green, libertarian...WHATEVER...but DON'T be fooled into thinking the GOP gives a shit about you unless you're white, hetero, "christian" male & among the top 2% earners of this country because they dont. corporate greed is their game.

And if these candidates do win their races...things like the federal minimum wage, women's rights, gay rights and more are in severe jeopardy of being lost. some of these candidates want to see abortion illegal in ALL situations even rape/incest. Some of these candidates (nebreska) want to PULL BACK CIVIL RIGHTS.

what I still havent found the answer to is, how can some of these candidates justify their ideas of cutting or even ABOLISHING federal funds for education (for example) and expect people to receive decent schooling to get to college/job training? Why do these candidates think they need to try to legislate morality or civil rights in one breath but then turn around and say they believe in "limited gov't" in the next? and how can you believe in limited gov't if you expect to get Social Security or Medicare when you get "old"...and btw...if they have their way, the retirement age will be RAISED from 65 to a much higher age because many republicans believe "americans dont work enough and arent nearly poor enough"....yeah tell that to the MILLIONS of families who worked hard but are now below the poverty line, homeless etc thanks to this economy, which btw BUSH AND HIS CRONIES broke and ran into the ground for 8 years.


I welcome your thoughts, opinions or feedback. This is not me speaking for anyone else. I'm just starting a discussion. Agree/Disagree...lets talk!

 

[Dark Lady]

^I'm not really into politics that much, but I do agree with you on most of it.

I think that everyone should have the same rights and that there shouldn't be people who have certain rights because of their religion, race, sexuality, gender, etc.

But I feel mixed about abortion because of the whole process. I don't believen it if you're sexually active and you get knocked up like the characters do in the movies, but if you were raped or if your situation was incest then I think you should have the right to have or not have an abortion.

And I don't like how they're increasing the retirement age either, because I think you should be able to retire when you become a senior citizen (55 years old) because you've been working for a long time.

So that's my view on some of it.

 

[Karma]

yay! someone finally commented lol!

on abortion- i'm staunchly pro choice. as a woman i feel that its my right to decide what i do w/ my body. being pro choice doesnt mean I'm "pro abortion" as in go out and be careless and abort to fix the problem. no. being pro choice, i do feel its the responsibility of women AND men who are sexually active to use contraception. there's too many options and ways to get access for women not to be on the pill and men not to have condoms.

it bothers me that some people always blame the women/girls who wind up "knocked up"...a MAN was involved in that too but somehow he's not at fault?

in the end, I just feel that freedom of choice is important and if a person has any idea of what it was like in a PRE "roe vs. wade" world where women died in back alleys or used coat hangers to terminate a pregnancy...then one would realize that there's alot at stake with even the threat of overturning roe v wade. a woman's right to choose should not be decided by a gov't or a man.

right now in america the retirement age is 65. How much higher do they think it should be??

and its funny to me how some of these people who are in favor of "limited gov't" still expect that social security check or medicare when they reach 65 or older.

 

[Archon]

I think you're way off base here. We've gone back and forth before so I'm not going to do it again here (though I will address some of your comments), but I will say this election really seemed to be about Obama and the nation's disillusionment with him and his policies. He's a very polarizing figure and it will be interesting to see how he reacts to these results.
On to the comments...

I don't care if you are for/against the Dems...be independant, be green, libertarian...WHATEVER...but DON'T be fooled into thinking the GOP gives a shit about you unless you're white, hetero, "christian" male & among the top 2% earners of this country because they dont. corporate greed is their game.

This idea has always confounded me. I've got plenty of black friends who are very conservative, both socially and fiscially. I've got plenty of female friends who feel (and vote) the same. Arguably the powerful person in the GOP is a woman, Palin (love her or hate her, you know it's true). Condi Rice would likely win the GOP nomination if she ran (but alas, she's too smart for that). Bobby Jindhal is another minority who has a real shot at the nomination. In my state, a female Republican looks like she just might pull off an upset over a male Democrat for the position of lt. governor. I could go on, but I hope you get my point...the Republican party clearly embraces both minorities and women.
Democrats have always seemed to be the party that loves to label people and shackle the poor and minority groups with layers of government interference. Affirmative action seems to be the most racist bit of legislation on the books. The government is, in effect, telling African-Americans that they cannot achieve what white people can without help.

it bothers me that some people always blame the women/girls who wind up "knocked up"...a MAN was involved in that too but somehow he's not at fault?
...
a woman's right to choose should not be decided by a gov't or a man.

You acknowledge a man had a role in the conception, but deny that he should have a voice in keeping the child?

and its funny to me how some of these people who are in favor of "limited gov't" still expect that social security check or medicare when they reach 65 or older.

I'm very much in favor of limited government, and I would certainly rather be able to keep my money and fund my own retirement than having to depend on the government to do it for me. I'm planning as if that money won't there when I retire because the system, as it currently exist, is unsustainable.

 

[Rampage]

Affirmative action seems to be the most racist bit of legislation on the books. The government is, in effect, telling African-Americans that they cannot achieve what white people can without help.

To correct this, the government is telling white Americans that there is a need to create a diversity that whites have failed to manage without help. There have always been capable, smart, resourceful and hardworking Black people. there has pretty much never been opportunities for those people due DIRECTLY to racism that continues today. For anyone disputing that, I'd like to remind them that today's CEOs/managers/hiring managers/bosses are usually in their 50s to 60s. That means they grew up in a segregated US that had to endure a very violent time to even start to work for equality. At best many of them have a hard time relating AT ALL to a person of color, much less trusting them to do important work for them.

Affirmative Action is the exact OPPOSITE of racist. To label it as such is very interesting and new wave conservative, but sadly misguided. Unless you believe that Blacks are simply whiny and have no worried when it comes to criminally low representation in many jobs.

The election will be quite interesting I believe. For me it is looking to be a very scary time in my country that people seem to think needs to be taken "back". Unfortunately, I have no good history for it to go back TO.

 

[Karma]

I think you're way off base here. We've gone back and forth before so I'm not going to do it again here (though I will address some of your comments), but I will say this election really seemed to be about Obama and the nation's disillusionment with him and his policies. He's a very polarizing figure and it will be interesting to see how he reacts to these results.
On to the comments...

why am i off base? because i vocally disagree with a party that has historically disrespected and marginalized minorities? a party that historically backs corporations over PEOPLE? really, why am I off base?

people ARE disillusioned, but its not Obama's fault. He didnt spend the previous 8 years running shit into the ground, sending jobs to china and eroding our personal and civil liberities. The man's only been in office for 2 years now, how could anyone expect him to fix in that time what Bush BROKE in 8 years? not to mention that when he tried to be "bi partisan" he was slapped in the face by the GOP time and again these last two years. The GOP said MANY times their TOP goal was to "make sure Obama was a one term president" NOT the economy, not any OTHER real issue. THey wanted to see Obama FAIL above all else.

People are disillusioned because they see WallStreet has been REVIVED while the rest of us still suffer and struggle. That wasnt Obama's doing.

This idea has always confounded me. I've got plenty of black friends who are very conservative, both socially and fiscially. I've got plenty of female friends who feel (and vote) the same. Arguably the powerful person in the GOP is a woman, Palin (love her or hate her, you know it's true). Condi Rice would likely win the GOP nomination if she ran (but alas, she's too smart for that). Bobby Jindhal is another minority who has a real shot at the nomination. In my state, a female Republican looks like she just might pull off an upset over a male Democrat for the position of lt. governor. I could go on, but I hope you get my point...the Republican party clearly embraces both minorities and women.

archon, come on now. i'm white just like you and you're going to sit there and suggest because you "have black friends" that that makes you able to understand the very big problem posed to the black community at large by the GOP and the Tea party? Clarence Thomas and Condi Rice do NOT represent average black americans. No black person on any income /education level that I know has ever felt that those two (or Colin Powell ) represents or is even IN TOUCH with what life is like for MOST blacks in america and the fact of the matter is that at the end of the day, a black person can be rich, well educated etc but in the eyes of more than a few white people, particularly in the republican /tea party - they're still "just another n*****" to suggest anything else is naive. we're not living in post racial times and the reaction to Obama's election, primarily the tea party's manifestation should be proof of that.

the fact that the RNC picked Michael Steele to be their mouth piece or that the Tea Party had a black man as their spokesman on CNN doesnt mean these people arent racist. Its just like how the nazi's made OTHER jews operate the gas chambers that killed their fellow jews.

Democrats have always seemed to be the party that loves to label people and shackle the poor and minority groups with layers of government interference. Affirmative action seems to be the most racist bit of legislation on the books. The government is, in effect, telling African-Americans that they cannot achieve what white people can without help.

oh really? and that's why tea party candidates like Sharon Angle and the one in kentucky were making statements on live television saying things like "black men would rather get high off weed then get a higher education" among other things. that's why we're seeing more extreme and balatant displays of racism from public officials (who are republican) causing them to have to step down from their jobs when they get caught?

the dems care alot more about civil liberties and freedom as well protecting minorities as opposed to the GOP who has more than a few among its number that would LOVE to overturn roe v wade and repeall the civil rights act. the reality IS that in this country certain groups of people ARE oppressed in one form or another. You may not believe that but then again you're white and male. I'm white but I'm a woman and I face sexism (among other things) every day at work. Arent there supposed to be laws to protect me? State level- BARELY enforced. Fed level- taken VERY seriously.

gov't interference? there was a time in this country that the gov't DID regulate big business to keep it from abusing the public. It's only been the last few decades that people (mainly republicans) seem to think that business should operate free of regulation no matter HOW much wrong they do and then you wonder why shit like Enron or the walstreet meltdown happens and who ends up suffering? THE PUBLIC.

You acknowledge a man had a role in the conception, but deny that he should have a voice in keeping the child?

I'm very much in favor of limited government, and I would certainly rather be able to keep my money and fund my own retirement than having to depend on the government to do it for me. I'm planning as if that money won't there when I retire because the system, as it currently exist, is unsustainable.

It's still the WOMAN who carries the child, bears the majority of the burden. It's HER body, it should be HER choice. If the man "knocked her up" (which usually implies he has no intention of sticking around to take care of what he helped to create) then why should his opinion matter? IF the woman wanted to terminate the pregnancy but the man wanted to take full custody of the child and assume ALL financial,legal etc responsibility for the child then I could see an exception being made as long as it was binding and he couldnt reneg at the last minute after documents were signed. if he agreed to pay for all the pre-natal care, hospitalization and then immediately took custody of the child and assumed all other obligations, then yes, i think it would be resonable to consider his feelings in the matter but in most cases that's not what's happening. people use abortion as a talking point to make themselves sound moral and just and how the hell can a man have anything to say about it? they dont go through the burdern of carrying a pregnancy to term OR giving birth. it's not their life that could be in danger during delivery.

"limited gov't" - u hear that alot but our own history has shown you can't expect every state to properly police itself. they tried that shit during the days of slavery, jim crow and pre civil rights and look what happened. and also, how can people claim to want limited gov't but then turn around and petition that same gov't to legislate who has right rights or how people (whom they dont "approve of") get to live? that makes no sense to me.

seems to me that one of the FIRST things limited gov't would acknowledge is that people (whether their black, white, gay, bi, pagan etc) should be allowed to BE who they are, LIVE their lives and have EQUAL RIGHTS AND PROTECTION. But that's not what i see happening when the GOP/Tea Party talk about limited gov't. their idea of limited gov't involves letting corporations run wild, abolishing federal protections that for some people are all they have (anti discrimination laws) when it comes to certain issues and using the gov't to legislate morality.

 

[Archon]

Affirmative Action is the exact OPPOSITE of racist.

Unless you're an equally qualified white male who is passed over for a position based solely on his color. Wikimedia Error
And Jill, you and I are so far apart that I don't think it will do either of us any good to try to sort this out, lol.

 

[Rampage]

Unless you're an equally qualified white male who is passed over for a position based solely on his color.

I invite you to find the University, Corporation, or well-paying profession in which white males are underrepresented.

To answer the above, there are none. The only way you can believe that white males deserve ALL of the jobs is if you somehow believe that they are a superior average applicant to any other demographic. I would strenuously disagree with that argument.

But since the white males that do most of the hiring seem to believe that, the federal government had to become involved.

I will say this Archon, I enjoy speaking with you even if we do not agree. And people like yourself and Delilah I respect for your views. The concern that I have is that while you have reasoned arguments for your beliefs, so many who feel as you do are so EVIL in the way they treat people of color and women. They are not you, and I do not cite them to indict you. I wanted you to know that, even if we NEVER agree, lol.

I cite them because I hope that all of us can rightfully denounce the racists and crazies on the fringe of our disagreements.

 

[Archon]

The only way you can believe that white males deserve ALL of the jobs is if you somehow believe that they are a superior average applicant to any other demographic. I would strenuously disagree with that argument.

I would also strenously disagree with that argument.
I know racism exists. I live in the south. When I see it, it breaks my heart. I work for a non-profit that does a lot of work with inner city teenagers and a lot of those are really good kids. I care about them. If I knew of someone discriminating against them, I'd kick that person in balls. Sadly, just last week, one of those kids called me a racist because I wouldn't let him go to the bathroom (that we were in a caravan of 5 buses carrying 200 people and were 10 minutes from home didn't seem to register with him.). Screaming racism was just his go-to attack. Racism exists, but it's not everywhere.
I certainly do not believe that white males deserve ALL the jobs. My comment about reverse discrimination was just meant to illustrate my belief that no one (white, black, or green) should be given special consideration based on the color of their skin. I believe that all people are capable of competing on a level playing field and that African Americans don't need the government forcing compaines to hire them. To do so diminishes their own success and hard work.
I read an article on genetics a couple of years ago (I could probably dig it up if anyone is interested) that found there is greater genetic differintiation among whites than there is between blacks and whites. The thesis of the article (as evidenced by the study) is that there is, in fact, only one race. The human race. We are all much more alike than we are different.