Hip Hop's Homophobia And Black Gay America's Silence

I explained how I can support justice without having to agree with the actions of the one seeking justice. Justice is a principle and as they say blind.

Case in point, I support the Palenstinian cause, but not the actions of agression they take.

Are you suggesting that since I dont agree with suicide bombing that I can't agree with their plight for justice?

Lastly, I don't see how I can be part of the problem because I realize a personal truth that I don't have to think homosexual is right to understand that as human beings and tax paying citizens they deserve the same rights as every human being and every other tax paying citizen.

From a non-religious perspective, one can go back and study homophobia in black culture and see that even as far back as Africa even the animist and tribal customs promoted this way of thinking and its been this way for centuries.

All in all whether you blame monotheism or polytheism, religion has had a major influence in our cultural "awareness" or lack there of, both directly and indirectly as atheism is a rarity statistically in the black community. Even if people werent "religious" Grandma was and passed on her moral "code" to her children, oftentimes as you know being black, we tend to follow traditions and beliefs that we don't even know where they originate, but thats how it is in our family.

Which is why I stand by the opinion that to solve any black issue, one has to evalute the religious influence.
 
What I'm saying though is that the problem is with the black people who cannot seperate not agreeing with and not accepting homosexuality and letting people be.

Some people disagree with it and simply cannot accept anyone who is gay. Those are the people that sink into an ignorant homophobia.

My arguement is that by getting people to even understand the why people are (because in the end the problem is they don't know the why they are) we can find a solution to the homophia that is plaguing black culture.

Obviously it is possible to support a cause and dispute the actions. But how much wieght does your words carry when you're saying 'I don't mind gay people, but I disagree with homosexuality'.

At the same time though isn't the problem, the not being able to accept, understand and agreeing with homosexuality? If you don't agree with it how can you claim to be part of any solution? Even though admittingly you may not be adding to the problem.

The problem of with homophobia in black people is because they don't agree with it, many haven't spent the time to understand it and are vocal about not agreeing with the sexuality. Within that the negativity is born and perpetuated.

That said I think it is blind to say that religion is the root to the solution now. Maybe in the World you percieve because religion has been a strong part of your upbringing. But as a black man who isn't religious how is your dogma going to reach me?
 
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No don't get me wrong, Im don't feel compelled to explain myself, but when talking about an issue as big as this, its best to fully explain yourself because you never know who is reading, and all it takes is one person to make a difference. I wanted to push my position to show that there are many ways to attack this problem and to show the diversity in opinions that currently exist.

As far as how much weight my position carries, I think that is subjective to the person evaluating the position. I prefer to let my actions do the talking.

Thanks for a spirited discussion.
 
Just playing a bit of Devil's Advocate here. Why should anyone in the Black community even be concerned one way or another? Or have to apologize for the ignorance of a rapper here or a reggae artist there? Many of their fans don't care about that stuff, I would imagine that some fans aren't even aware of the homophobic lyrics. In addition, people see prejudice every day. If you constantly confronted that or did not deal with a person perceived to have a prejudice of some sort, you could easily isolate yourself. Lastly Osiris, how is this issue much different from the issue of terrorism and radical Islam? In that thread you seemed to say that non-radical Muslims had no responsibility or role in terms of dealing with radicals yet here you sound a clarion call for all Blacks to deal with this issue. Is that a consistent view?
Just some points I saw while reading this...
 
Rampage said:
Just playing a bit of Devil's Advocate here. Why should anyone in the Black community even be concerned one way or another? Or have to apologize for the ignorance of a rapper here or a reggae artist there? Many of their fans don't care about that stuff, I would imagine that some fans aren't even aware of the homophobic lyrics. In addition, people see prejudice every day. If you constantly confronted that or did not deal with a person perceived to have a prejudice of some sort, you could easily isolate yourself. Lastly Osiris, how is this issue much different from the issue of terrorism and radical Islam? In that thread you seemed to say that non-radical Muslims had no responsibility or role in terms of dealing with radicals yet here you sound a clarion call for all Blacks to deal with this issue. Is that a consistent view?
Just some points I saw while reading this...
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Good questions:)

Black people should care, primarily because as a community we are still at the very bottom of all positive statistics(wealth, health, etc.) and the highest in all negative statistics(crime, unemployment, etc.). Anything that helps to further stagnate our progress is worthy of a challenge and a postitive alternative to fix these issues.

I never advocated an apology, because apologies without action is futile. This is about Justice to me. Its not limited to the black community either. It just so happens that our community tends to be the most homophobic and that was the thesis of this article, but in general terms homophobia is wicked and doesnt promote true and equitable dealings among diverse people.

As far as the Islamic discussion goes, I never said that Muslims had no responsibility, I was saying that we shouldnt be blamed for their actions or be thought to have to apologize. As Muslims its our duty to educate and inform to ensure that the issues are addressed and prevented. Many Muslims currently do this and their are many Muslim organizations that constantly do this.

My opinions are consistent, because Im not calling for black people as a whole to apologize for homophobia nor blaming black people as a whole. Im addressing an issue thats in our community and needs to be resolved. The same as in the Islamic community.

I don't feel that those who are not a part of the problem should be held responsible or feel apologetic for the actions of others. However, we do have the individual responsibility to be productive to the human family.
 
Rampage said:
Just playing a bit of Devil's Advocate here. Why should anyone in the Black community even be concerned one way or another? Or have to apologize for the ignorance of a rapper here or a reggae artist there? Many of their fans don't care about that stuff,
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I don't know about you but part of my cultural awarness is the acknowledgement that black people culturally are homophobic. Given that Music is such a powerful medium for the voice of black culture I do care what is being said and expressed.

I would imagine that some fans aren't even aware of the homophobic lyrics.
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I think that is hard to say when the entire song; Boom bye bye by Buju Banton, was all about shooting Gay people. And Chi Chi Man by TOK was all about burning Gay people. And both songs ruled the British Summer time seperated by a decade. I'd go as far as to say subconciously those two songs fed hate to two different generations, because phrases in the songs are regularly used to express hatered against gays.

In addition, people see prejudice every day. If you constantly confronted that or did not deal with a person perceived to have a prejudice of some sort, you could easily isolate yourself.
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The thing is not confronting it also isolates people as has been expressed by Black Gay people.
 
Good Thoughts,

Osiris

Your simple formula that religious = homophobia is completely in error.
Just because Homosexuality is a sin in the Christian and Islamic religions doesn't mean that folks who follow those faiths are homophobic. There is a big difference in condemning evil behavior and than enforcing violence and hatred against people.

Also, I like the fact that our community has not been poisoned by the lies of people who seek to change the moral fabric and strength of our society through their ills. This embrace of radical feminism, homosexuality and sexual immoralties have done nothing but continue to destroy our society and bring American closer to ruin.

AS for the "down low" brothers, many of those guys give off homosexual vibes way in advance and folks just ignore it. It reminds me of the folks who are shocked that, "Clay Aiken might be gay." I think we have to be honest, their are a lot of homosexuals in our community and a lot of guys are trying to have their cake and eat it too and all they are doing is spreading AIDS amongst our people and killing off our population.

Their is a genocide going on against blacks particularly black males,
we are told to be thugs which leads to prison aka social death or to the grave, we are told to be players which tends to make us horrible fathers and destroy family structures, gaurenteeing the repeating of these negative actions amongst future generations, and finally we are pushed with the faulty notions of Liberals in the Democratic party that we must accept behaviors that put us more at risk.

You guys can say all you want, but at the end of the day it's my black brothers that are dying and it's my relatives I am having to bury.
Homosexuality has got to stop and so does this "do what you like" poison that has infected our people.
 
ZorCrow said:
Also, I like the fact that our community has not been poisoned by the lies of people who seek to change the moral fabric and strength of our society through their ills. This embrace of radical feminism, homosexuality and sexual immoralties have done nothing but continue to destroy our society and bring American closer to ruin.
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EXCUSE ME? "Radical Feminism continues to destroy our society?" what the hell kind of shit is that to say? FIRST of all...It AMAZES me that as part of a minority group YOURSELF that you could CONDEMN the movement of WOMEN (ALSO a minority group) to try to assert their rights and equality. We are NOT subserviant to men NOR were we meant to be and we do NOT have to be content with what men ALLOW us to have. 40 years of feminism and the fight for women's rights has allowed us to see ourselves in levels of govenment that would have been UNDREAMED OF decades prior; we won the BASIC right to VOTE, we won the right to EQUAL PAY in the work place for doing the same jobs as a MAN when we are JUST AS QUALIFIED...etc.

More importantly, women have shown that we are capable of doing anything that a man can do or at least TRYING and that we do NOT have to 'sit back' or 'be seen and not heard' just because some ARCHAIC , chauvanistic beliefs that are perpetuated by this patriarchal society still persist today. RELIGION IS OFTEN used to justify the subjugation of women....so if its "radical" to fight against these archaic perceptions of women that YOU seem to hold so dear...then so be it.

But i RESENT the fact that you would imply women fighting for their rights and equal standing in this woefully male dominated society is what is DEGRADING america :rolleyes:


Zorcrow said:
Homosexuality has got to stop and so does this "do what you like" poison that has infected our people.
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Homosexuality has been around A HELL OF A LOT LONGER than many RELIGIONS Zorcrow. this wasnt a 20th century invention...nor is it a disease or mental defect. SEXUALITY is but ONE part of who a person is. how can you expect someone to STOP being who they are just because YOU dont like it?
 
Zorcrow....or shall I say....awww nevermind, I don't see how you got out of my "speech" religious=homophobia.

Im very "religious" and Im not homophobic. I was telling the plain truth that many blacks will attest to that, because our community is overwhelmingly "religious" that is one of the major root causes of our extreme homophobia.

There is not one religion or cultural idea that blacks as a community embrace that isnt against homosexuality. The ones that embrace these religions and ideas, which I am a part of, have to make the choice to be homophobic or not. The way the messages that we listen to are given, oftentimes we arent given much leg room, therefore its up to the individual to make a descision as to how to deal with people with whom they are at variance with.

Case in point: In Islam, homosexual behavior is called an abomination and Christians are oftentimes compared to Pagans, however, we are also taught in the very same book that we should deal with people different than us in fair in equitable terms, and let Allah alone judge on the day of judgement.

That is why I can say fundamentally I don't agree with homosexuality, but I agree that homosexuals deserve justice just like every other American and have the freedom to live as they choose to.

I don't have to make everyone a Muslim for the Quran teaches that there should be no compulsion in religion, but I do have to treat everyone that is not Muslim with honor and dignity.
 
What confuses me and slightly frustrates me to be honest is that a topic of homophobia found in songs associated with black culture, that obviously highlights the rampant homophobia found in black culture cannot be discussed past the point of religious views.

In my meagre twenty five years of life I’ve learnt that sum total of black culture and the black identity was not and is not purely rooted in any which religion. Yes religion has been a feature within the cultural growth of black people yet Black people are not synonymous with religion. Looking through this topic I’ve come to query when and how this became all about religion and how can religion be the solution when clearly an educating of minds with science and providing a more lenient, accepting and mature view of varying societies is needed.

Moreover I think it is naïve to claim that believing that homosexuality is a sin isn’t part of the problem. Sure, some are able to leave people alone to live their lives as they see fit. But thinking it is a sin, teaching it is a sin without properly educating the why people are and what it is, is what has seen rampant homophobia plague my race. Homophobia is born out of a lack of understanding. (As I have learnt).

A sin is a “negative thing” and born out of that are negative reactions too the sin or too the people who commit said sin. It is speaking out against that perceived negativity that has seen people feel justified to sing the songs that was the initial catalyst of this topic - Yes some religions teach the multi-sided argument; "that though people may not follow the teachings, it is still possible to accept them as people". Yet for every person that can do that there is going to be some who cannot accept the differences that seperate people and feel justified to express there feelings against the things they cannot accept. - By teaching people Homosexuality isn’t a sin, that it isn’t a negative thing, is the only real, complete and total way that will eliminate the negative view that the Black race has of Homosexuality.

But you guys will disagree with that because it goes against your religion and you’re not going to suddenly believe religious teachings that homosexuality is ok. You’ll always believe it is negative, a sin, ‘not right’ and that is why I say you are part of the problem because change is something you’re not willing to do. And since religion is so unmoving, I feel that it isn’t the route to take in order to educate people that homosexuality isn’t a negative thing.
 
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DonDaddyD said:
What confuses me and slightly frustrates me to be honest is that a topic of homophobia found in songs associated with black culture, that obviously highlights the rampant homophobia found in black culture cannot be discussed past the point of religious views.

In my meagre twenty five years of life I’ve learnt that sum total of black culture and the black identity was not and is not purely rooted in any which religion. Yes religion has been a feature within the cultural growth of black people yet Black people are not synonymous with religion. Looking through this topic I’ve come to query when and how this became all about religion and how can religion be the solution when clearly an educating of minds with science and providing a more lenient, accepting and mature view of varying societies is needed.

Moreover I think it is naïve to claim that believing that homosexuality is a sin isn’t part of the problem. Sure, some are able to leave people alone to live their lives as they see fit. But thinking it is a sin, teaching it is a sin without properly educating the why people are and what it is, is what has seen rampant homophobia plague my race. Homophobia is born out of a lack of understanding. (As I have learnt).

A sin is a “negative thing” and born out of that are negative reactions too the sin or too the people who commit said sin. It is speaking out against that perceived negativity that has seen people feel justified to sing the songs that was the initial catalyst of this topic - Yes some religions teach the multi-sided argument; "that though people may not follow the teachings, it is still possible to accept them as people". Yet for every person that can do that there is going to be some who cannot accept the differences that seperate people and feel justified to express there feelings against the things they cannot accept. - By teaching people Homosexuality isn’t a sin, that it isn’t a negative thing, is the only real, complete and total way that will eliminate the negative view that the Black race has of Homosexuality.

But you guys will disagree with that because it goes against your religion and you’re not going to suddenly believe religious teachings that homosexuality is ok. You’ll always believe it is negative, a sin, ‘not right’ and that is why I say you are part of the problem because change is something you’re not willing to do. And since religion is so unmoving, I feel that it isn’t the route to take in order to educate people that homosexuality isn’t a negative thing.
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What you fail to realize is that blacks that don't consider religion important or don't believe in religion are in the minority. Hence the poll statistics I sited earlier in this discussion.

Secondly, you assume that by saying science and education can fix anything is the contrary to religion. That is a purely atheistic position, because while you may broadstroke religion as backward, you might want to go see that Islam pioneered many of the sciences, mathematics, and medical practices that are so "advanced" The Quran was teaching evolution, atoms, birth, etc. before these terms were even known in the West. But thats another discussion.

Its one thing to say that calling something a sin is a bad thing and part of the problem, and yes a sin is a bad thing, but WHY is it considered a sin is the real question. In Islam, we actually explain why we believe such, and if one is of a different position that is fine. But don't assume that because other religions just believe its a sin because its in their book, that all religions specifically Islam works that way.

For most Muslims including myself, It is a sin because of the reasoning of the Quran on the subject, not just God said no. Muslims are told to be objective and use reasoning to come to their conclusion. So before you attack a belief, it may make more sense to ask why first.

The bottom line is this:

The majority of Blacks something like 80+% have a religious affiliation. If one wants to tackle ANY problem in the black community it would make more sense to "attack" the common occurance.

Addressing a minority in a minority is not going to help change the majority opinion within that minority.

Don't even believe for one minute you are going to get the majority of blacks to believe that their scriptures are wrong on this issue.

Its best to work within those scriptures to find solutions.
 
Osiris said:
What you fail to realize is that blacks that don't consider religion important or don't believe in religion are in the minority. Hence the poll statistics I sited earlier in this discussion.
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That statistic did it cover all blacks? By all blacks I mean outside your Country. You fail to realise that my perspective and horizon is completely different from yours. You shouldn't assume that all Blacks will share the view or the views spinning out of your country. What connects us is that we are black and not the fact that we are all mostly religous.

Even my perspective of what makes a person religious and believing in religion is likely to be different from yours. So please when discussing with me do care to hold in mind that the World in which I live is completely different from yours.

Secondly, you assume that by saying science and education can fix anything is the contrary to religion. That is a purely atheistic position, because while you may broadstroke religion as backward, you might want to go see that Islam pioneered many of the sciences, mathematics, and medical practices that are so "advanced" The Quran was teaching evolution, atoms, birth, etc. before these terms were even known in the West. But thats another discussion.
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No this above all is very much the discussion, you intially wanted to highlight the problem and a probable solution.

Religion teaches a lack of understanding and intollerance to what homosexuality is, in my lifetime I do not know of one mainstream religion practiced now that supports homosexuality, much rather promoting it as a negative thing.

By learning what it is, is the only way to provide a solution. A solution that religion ultimately cannot and will not provide and a medium of practices can. But then in the end that is just my opinion based on society against yours.

In Islam, we actually explain why we believe such, and if one is of a different position that is fine. But don't assume that because other religions just believe its a sin because its in their book, that all religions specifically Islam works that way. For most Muslims including myself, It is a sin because of the reasoning of the Quran on the subject, not just God said no. Muslims are told to be objective and use reasoning to come to their conclusion. So before you attack a belief, it may make more sense to ask why first.
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I'm not as short sighted as you think Osiris, OBVIOUSLY there are reasons WHY a religion would call a sin a sin. But ultimately a sin is a sin and thus a negative thing. Did it ever occur to you that in this instance I don't believe that Homosexuality is a negative thing or a sin? For me and my thoughts on the matter elminating the negativity surrounding the problem would be the only solution, but given that people with religious views tend not to budge, I feel that the solution cannot be found within religion.

Alright, I didn't come here to have an arguement today, and I've been addressed in far to patronizing a manner when I never addressed you so directly so I'll post my thoughts and then you can reply, ignore, whatever. I'm done.

Those Hip Hop songs, the vast majority of the ragga and reggae songs do not contain lyrics about God advocating the singers hate for homosexuals. It is a personal view born out of social upbringing. Many of those singers IF they are religious have varying religions and it would be too much to try to work through every scripture of every possible religion to try and change the view of gay people throughout Black culture.

It is however possible to reach the entirity of Black Culture and not just in AMERICA through other more unifying mediums.

Edit:- You know quite frankly I'm vexed, I've come back to look at this thread and how I've been spoken to and I'm utterly pissed off! This thread was all about discussing solutions and the possible issues surrounding black culture and its homophobia. So I've come into this thread as a Black British man firstly and a non-religious person secondly. I've posted my thoughts that don't dance around religon (as they naturally wouldn't) and I'm spoken to with ridicule like I have no knowledge on the context, I've had assumptions of what I know thrown my way and been told I shouldn't assume this or I don't realise that like I'm some ill-read teenager. If your so sure of the solution, if your so sure that religion will provide all answers and won't allow others their thoughts why post the damn subject in the first place?

And normally I would just let this slide, walk away and drink a can of beer but considering I tried hard to post my views in the most general fashion I could in order not to appear to single out any one religion, considering the ridicule in the reply I just got I simply couldn't just let it go. And that is why I have a general disdain for religion and look upon it as a warped concept because most religous people cannot accept a view outside of their own and when questioned instead of educating and providing their perspective respectively they become dismissive and patronizing in a desperate attempt to cling to what they believe so desperately.
 
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Wow, as this thread proves

To the Athiest/Agnostic Religion is always the problem, therefore making a relgion out of athiesm and agnosticism.

Secondly as for Binder's incorrect comments.

Women and men are equal but not parallel. Men are physically superior to women, we are stronger than you and we more physically capabale than you. However, women and men are both unique and their roles are unique in our society. Radical feminism has changed the roles of women and men in our society, mainly for the negative.

Men are made men for a reason and men are the lead in the marriage in the family for a reason, men must lead by example and by love. Wives must submit to their husbands and husbands most love and respect their wives. But the man is the lead and that is something lost in radical feminism.

Does that mean that women can't be preachers or attorneys or even run major corporations? Nope, by far women can, and women should. But as for relationships and family man is the head, but the woman a strong neck.

I am a minority and women are a minority but that doesn't mean we have to agree. That twisted logic is prominetly in politics. We must be alike . . Not true Blacks and Hispanics don't always get along because we have different goals and issues in our ethnic groups.

I think Osiris has a great view coming from Islam, but Islam itself many nations slaughter and abuse homosexuals and as for no compulsian in religion, many Islamic nations ban other religions so therefore you are forced to adopt Islam. I find the practices of Islam far more reaching than his statements.
It is also good to see his understand of butchering scriptures, as he stated Christianity like Islam does explain WHY sins are sins. But butchering the scripture to adopt sin as many churches have done to their own shame is not the answer nor correct.

I like the fact that our community doesn't go with the status quo, I like the fact that we aren't letting this out of control
hedonistic culture pollute us any worse than it has. We do have homosexuality issues we have to deal with along with crime, fornication , and econmical issues.

Also, our faith has been around from the beginning in fact,
Christanity teaches before time GOD chose us (Romans chapter 8) so our "religion" was around far before homosexuality and even creation.

Hip hop as a lot worse issues such as violence, beefing, rejection of vaules that tend to life and success and abuse of women and human beings.


 
:eek:

allright..that's it. I am SO done with this thread. FUCK THIS ARCHAIC, CHAUVANIST MENTALITY. I have NOTHING more to say on this matter except to say...if i wasnt ALREADY "widowed"....then i sure as hell WOULD be right now because if this is how MEN in MY generation think...then Ill be DAMNED If im going to compromise myself by dealing with such assholes.


first of all: Osiris...your holier than thou attitude really betrays you. this is the SECOND thread in which you have implied (whether you realize it or not) that basically ISLAM beliefs are best..and anything else is garbage and all non muslims (aka "western society) are infidles. Using religious precepts as an excuse to condemn (whether you want to call it that or not...telling someone you dont approve of who they are IS a form of condemnation) a person simply for being something YOU DONT UNDERSTAND is NOT FAIR nor is it RIGHT.

JESUS HIMSELF hung out with the damn leppers and prostitutes..he CRITICIZED the Pharisees for constantly blustering on and on about "what christian doctorine doesnt condone" etc etc. Jesus REACHED OUT and HELPED these people..he didnt condemn them NOR did he punctuate his assistance with "i dont approve of your lifestyle BUT ill help you anyway".

and as for YOU Zorcrow: HOW FUCKING DARE YOU come to a board FILLED with women and SPEW this chauvanist nonsense!? :eek:

this is NOT the 1950's..this is the 21rst fucking century. MANY households in america today are HEADED BY WOMEN...and they do JUST FINE raising their families on their own. and BELIEVE ME honey...NOT ALL MEN are "physically superior" to women..and for you to rest on that laurel SHOWS just how arrogant you are as you revel in your false sense of "male superiority"....i know PLENTY of women who could take YOU down..and dont think that you're the only one with "physical combat training". I KNOW what you look like sweetie...;)


Women dont have to "submit" to ANY damn body...we CHOOSE to share our lives with our husbands/boyfriends..but we are in NO WAY REQUIRED to "submit" to ANY man. Ultimately..our lives are OUR OWN and WE decide our fate.


and as for APPLAUDING homophobia and saying "you like that black people dont go with the status quo?" YOU REMEMBER that if someone in your family or a friend YOU care about turns out to be GAY and is assaulted by OTHER black people in his/her community and see how you feel about it THEN.

a WHITE person who is sympathetic to the fucking NAZIS could easily say "I like the fact that the KLAN goes against the status quo" when it comes to spewing racism and bigotry.....i bet you'd have something to say about THAT.
 
Spellbinder said:
allright..that's it. I am SO done with this thread. F*** THIS ARCHAIC, CHAUVANIST MENTALITY. I have NOTHING more to say on this matter except to say...if i wasnt ALREADY "widowed"....then i sure as hell WOULD be right now because if this is how MEN in MY generation think...then Ill be DAMNED If im going to compromise myself by dealing with such ***holes.
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I'd marry you in a heartbeat my blonde angel . .. even though we agree on nothing, you know I respect you and your opinions.

:shrug:
 
I had a bunch of things that I had copied and pasted onto notepad that I was going to quote and reply to individually but that would just be a waste of time and the reply would be way to big some I’m just going to reply to everything I read as a whole instead of singling people out. One of the big things that I noticed is that several people mentioned that a.) religion is part of the problem because it condemns homosexuality b.) religion is what kills people and spreads ignorance and hate.

One thing about religion that people seem to miss is that at least in Christianity (I’m not particularly well versed in other religions but my mother is a Pentecostal pastor and we’ve gone to church all our lives so I know that religion VERY well) is USED to kill people and spread ignorance. Christianity at least, in and of itself, does NOT condone action against sinner. It preaches of tolerance, acceptance, and forgiveness. At least once the New Testament rolls along. The Old Testament is all about stoning and such but what ever.

I think people are FAR to quick to place the blame on religion and not on the WIELDER of said religion.

I also don’t understand what it is exactly that some of you want people to do in regards to religion. It’s been said in this thread that without a TOTAL acceptance of homosexuality progress can’t be made. So what would you have all those people that have religious beliefs do? You want them to abandon their religion because some people are too damned ignorant to separate their religious beliefs from their social/political views? That’s NOT the religion’s problem, that’s the PERSON’S problem. That’s just people using religion as the scapegoat for all our problems as has become the status quo. I believe in Christianity, so that means I believe homosexuality is wrong. Does that effect my world view on homosexuals at all? NOT ONE DAMNED BIT! I also believe in everything else that the bible speaks out against and it hasn’t stopped me from having pre-marital sex, stealing, doing drugs, not going to church with any kind of regularity, or anything else I do that is also condemned by scripture. So if it has no effect on my personal life why would it have any on my view of the world? Are there people that are hypocrites and use religion to lash out at gays? Yes. Is it justified by that religion? No! And since it’s not where the hell do you people get off trying to blame the religion when it is THE PEOPLE following it that are in the wrong?

I’m not saying that it’s the solution to the problem, merely stating that it’s this evil empire that you guys make it out to be.

At the end of the day what do I think about the whole thing? I think it all depends on how you persecute everything else said through lyrics in music. If it’s a ok for Dead Prez to CONSTANTLY talk about how much they hate white people, why can’t Eminem talk about how much he hates gays? The hypocrisy has to end and that’s when you’ll get your answer. If it’s ok to rap about how much you hate one section of society then it has to be ok to talk about any other section in the same light. It’s the same thing as the old ass Black Entertainment Television argument. You don’t think there would be a huge outcry if White Entertainment Television came out? Of course there would be and it would be bullshit. Frankly I think minorities get by on that kind of crap entirely too much. I think if you’re going to crack down on hate, crack down on ALL hate. And I’m Hispanic by the way, also a minority.
 
Sinsosleep

I don't agree with everything you said in your posting, but you hit some things right on the head. I however, am committed to living by the scriptures.
The thing you pointed out is so true, we must elimnate ALL HATE.

Hating white people is not right, as members of this board can tell youthey have been victims of prejudice because they are white. I have been mocked and called a sell out because of my affinity for BINDER and certain white, latin and asian women. Yet and still I prefer black women (i'm black) over all.

Folks see what they want to see, the hate they want to see. I often have said of this website, that for SOME members it's okay to bash the bible, Christanity, and those who are moderate to consevative, but the moment I say that Allah is not the GOD of the bible and that he's a tribal moon god (which he is) folks want to call me intolerant.

I think folks have to realize tolerance doesn't mean running over people of faith or people without faith, tolerance means even though I don't agree with you we still work together for what's right.

good post . .
 
I have a huge problem with the criticism of Black Entertainment Television. BET was established mainly beacuase all of the channels were already White Entertaionment Television. Hell, many Black artists could not even get their videos on MTV. BET filled a need and still does to this day. The problem when people call separate Black stuff racist is that they don't take into account why it was created and why it exists to this day.
As for the debate concerning homosexuality and Black culture, I have two observations:
1) To simply label Blacks as homophobic is terrible and unfair. Across the spectrum of race and religion lies intolerance of homosexuals. Do you think that Buju Banton is the only artist with anti-gay lyrics? Or that ONLY Black artists have anti-gay lyrics? Thats bullshit. In fact, I believe that homophobia is not really any worse in the Black culture than anywhere else, having personally seen homophobes in all races/religions.
2) I know for a fact that many people who dance to and enjoy reggae music do so for the melodies and beat rather than the lyrics. The truth is hat many listeners d not pay attention to what is said. That's why there are so many popular lyricists with weak skills...
 
My, My, My......

I don't know where to start,

Zorcrow I told you on the other board and I will tell you on this board, your "moon god" comment is not intolerant, it just means your an idiot.

Moving right along....

DonDaddyD, Certainly my statistics were focused around American Blacks, but a broader look at the statistics, I do work for Govt agencies that study such things, one will quickly see that when compared to other groups, those of African descent acrosss the planet have a greater affinity towards religion than other groups. The majority of blacks in America are Christian(for now don't blame me blame the FBI), while blacks in North Africa are Muslim, followed by Animists, and a mix of "other" religions in the Carribean, etc. The major point is even the rappers predominately claim some form of Christianity or Islam. This is not about religious practice, but more so affiliation.

This is how Bush got over in the election. Rove knew that people regardless of practice, tend to go with tradition. While these same blacks may not have been practicing Christians and may be open hypocrits, at the same time their core beliefs as to what their respective religions tell them remained in tact.

Which Is why I said to look toward religion. It is the common bond in our community always has been that way all the way back to ancient Kemet. The majority of our respective religions do teach that homosexuality is a sin. Its not the only sin BTW.

The point is your going to have radicals in every religion, if religion can produce both tolerance and intolerance, you should support the tolerant side in order to overcome the other. If both can currently coexist, then it means one can go away.

As far as Islam being the best way of life: It is. Islam means submission, there isnt one religion, theory, or craft that doesnt teach the best way in life is to submit. Its the object or purpose of submission that is where we vary, Most of you are already "Muslim" those who submit, and don't even realize it, including you Spellbinder.

Does that make anyone hollier than thou, absolutely not, because all are responsible for themselves. No sin is greater than another and we should embrace all(which is what I have been trying to say), however while we may be reminded of Jesus(PBUH) and his dealings with "sinners" remember that you can come to Jesus(PBUH) anyway you are, but your not supposed to stay that way.

So its false to accept the notion that while Jesus(PBUH) would have welcomed homosexuals in the fold that he would let them stay that way.

But I digress, this article that we are debating is not about whether homosexuality is a sin or not(we can leave that for another debate), or homophobia throughout the world, this article focuses primarily on the black community and our position on homosexuality and the roots there of.

Overall, our stigmas about homosexuality is a direct result of our cultural ideas as to what men and women should be and how they should behave. Much of which comes from our religious beliefs that stem back to ancient times before we knew the names of Christianity, Islam, or Judaism. Our cultural "awareness" is by product of our cultural situtation, and our situation was molded by religion one way or the other both positively and negatively.

So for those that want to paint this atheistic view of the black community, even worldwide, I would suggest you take a greater look at black history and you will find that not one movement, event, or idea formulated or action upon in our history especially in America was done without the influence of religion or religious beliefs.

Being that this is the truth how can a minority posistion in a minority influence the majority posistion within a minority?

Homes are normally cleaned from the inside out.
 
okay...WHY post this article to BEGIN WITH if basically you're saying that there's nothing that can be done about the problem?

secondly, if you think that "Islam" is best..then YOU and others like yourself are the ones who fan the flames of prejudice against muslims....just like CHRISTIANS who run around beating people over the head with THEIR religion and the bible and then they wonder way there's an "anti christian" bias.

If you think Islam is good for YOU then fine but dont tell me some arrogant bullshit about it being the "best religion on the planet" because that isnt going to impress me, all its going to do is make me think you and others like you are arrogant and think your religion makes you superior.

you basically spend your time talking DOWN to people in this thread and saying that "homophobia" is wrong BUT you condone religious teachings that RATIONALIZE the mistreatment, scrutiny and ostrasizing of gay people....WHICH IS IT?
 
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