Gender Roles?

[DonDaddyD]

what I DID say was that MEN mandate what he is displeased with... and getting fresh with the women HERE wouldn't get him ANYWHERE.

EVERYONE in the military is paid according to RANK, and SOME get specialty pay. black, white, purple, male, AND female. EQUALITY mandates that will never change

It wasn't just your post that touched a nerve it was a cumulative effect. Alright let me step back on this see where I might have gone wrong and apologise.

Yet what it is though, is that I don't see how Sinosleep did have an attitude or how he got fresh. What I saw was him highlight a case of inequality in favour of Women born out of the same inequality that is shaped against them and that benefit too Women; working less getting paid the same, was subsequently not truly being acknowledged directly as something wrong. What I saw was that his alternate but yet very valid point was being brushed over by the argument of, 'Men made the rules, so tough'.

Yes it is acknowledge that Women have a hard time getting anywhere in the army because of how they are generally looked upon. But equally it isn't fair for the Men that have to work alongside them working harder and being paid the same.

I'm aware that obviously a person will get paid according to rank, much like mostly any hierarchy in any given company in society. What I'm not getting is this equality mandate you mention. In relation to Sino's post.

He highlighted that Women at his rank were being paid the same for doing less. That is wrong we can all agree with that.So how can someone try to justify that it isn't and yet support womens rights?

Yes the Military may be set up in a way where it is percieved a woman cannot do the same as a Man but even then, that in itself is wrong.

At the end of the day all i saw in Sino's post was a man suffering from the rules made by men. It can also be said that self same mentality that has seen women doing less in the army and being paid the same (as described by Sino) is doing more harm than good for Women's rights.

If I have completly missed the point and you all agreed with Sino then I'm sorry but it didn't seem that way.

 

[sinosleep]

Thanks for the back up DDD. I think they psuedo agree but turn the issue back around on the men making it seem as if they don't agree. That and there was a little twisting there. I don't think that I had any kind of attitude at all, I also didn't imply that women COULDN'T do any of the things I listed. What I did say was that they DON'T whether they can or can't is irrelevent.

 

[Karma]

um...dont say THEY. If you recall ...I said (and so did Osiris) that its MEN who set the standards in military/law enforcement...and so THEY are the ones who apparently felt women needed special consideration BECAUSE WE ARE WOMEN and it is assumed that we cant do the jobs that men do.

Zorcrow foolishly suggested that HE was stronger than EVERY woman on this board and that men in general are ALWAYS physically superior to women. I know that NOT to be true and apparently so did Osiris (and im sure others do too).

I ALSO said that women should be expected to fullfill their responsibilities JUST AS THE MEN ARE EXPECTED TO if they are being paid the same. I ALSO referred to a point in history during women's fight for the right to VOTE and how when a woman was captured by police (since at that time it was illegal for us to demonstrate in public) and brought before a judge..he wanted to be linient with her BECAUSE SHE WAS A WOMAN...and SHE in turn DEMANDED that she be sent to jail because she didnt want liniency...shey wanted EQUAL TREATMENT. She was fighting for her right to vote and if that meant she had to go to jail..then so be it. it was all about being viewed as and TREATED as EQUAL.

 

[Rampage]

Ladies, I gotta go with Sinosleep here. It may feel good to blast him and blame the male-dominated society for the inequality in expectations in the military, but the fact of the matter is that the feminist movement has doen a great job of breaking down barriers, then staying silent and allowing women to take advantage of the inequalities that are then produced in said places. Here are a few examples:
In the military, activists screamed that women should be allowed in but on the items listed by Sinosleep they have been remarkably silent. Feminists are also silent on the skyrocketing pregnancy rates of active-duty servicewomen in combat or overseas assignments. Anyone who hides behind the whole "men run the thing so its their fault" deal are neglectibng to mention that many women are tacitly taking advantage of the rules to skate by relative to the men they serve with.
In tennis women demand equal pay to men. Seems fair, right? It does until you realize that women play best of three while men play best of five in major tournaments. That discrepancy alone has led to many top women being able to also play doubles or mixed doubles while the top men grind it out for the solo title. In the end, the top women make as much or more and still play less due to the 2 titles-for-1 title switch. So should the women's US Open champ make as much as the men's? Not if you agree with equal pay FOR EQUAL WORK. But they do.
The ascent of the woman in the workplace and equal rights to marriage and inheritance is great to me as a man primarily raised by his mother and her four successful sisters. But the hard truth is that women had many injustoces taken care of and have achieved much in terms of what they receive once divorced, yet the balanec has not been properly established. I know men in bad marriages to bad women who stay married because they KNOW that their wives will get the kids, even though they are not as fit to raise them. Why? Simply because they are the mother of the child. That inequality strikes home for me as I see strong members of my family feel trapped in a relationship where they are still required and compelled to provide for the family yet the female has little or no responsibility in the relationship, at least as outlined by law. These guys would love to get divorced knowing that they had a shot at the kids, but that is not to be.
I understand the struggle that women have faced in trying to overcome sexism, having seen that struggle firsthand in my female relatives with the race battle thrown in to boot. But I also see that the result of this movement has left a segment of the female population feeling very entitled, yet having no social or legal responsibilities. This is something that women have yet to address...
Now that I have probably pissed some people off, let's have at it!!

 

[sinosleep]

sinosleep said: I think they psuedo agree but turn the issue back around on the men making it seem as if they don't agree.

Spells that's what this sentence was all about. That TECHNICALLY you agree with what I just said, but you spun it right back around on men by saying that it's established by men, therefore, our fault. Which makes it sound like you don't agree.

Also while Osirus did mention that he has seen some very physically fit women, he also said himeself, it's NOT the norm. So the majority of the time, Zorcrow would be correct in saying that men are physically superior to men.

 

[ZorCrow]

um...dont say THEY. If you recall ...I said (and so did Osiris) that its MEN who set the standards in military/law enforcement...and so THEY are the ones who apparently felt women needed special consideration BECAUSE WE ARE WOMEN and it is assumed that we cant do the jobs that men do.

Zorcrow foolishly suggested that HE was stronger than EVERY woman on this board and that men in general are ALWAYS physically superior to women. I know that NOT to be true and apparently so did Osiris (and im sure others do too).

I ALSO said that women should be expected to fullfill their responsibilities JUST AS THE MEN ARE EXPECTED TO if they are being paid the same. I ALSO referred to a point in history during women's fight for the right to VOTE and how when a woman was captured by police (since at that time it was illegal for us to demonstrate in public) and brought before a judge..he wanted to be linient with her BECAUSE SHE WAS A WOMAN...and SHE in turn DEMANDED that she be sent to jail because she didnt want liniency...shey wanted EQUAL TREATMENT. She was fighting for her right to vote and if that meant she had to go to jail..then so be it. it was all about being viewed as and TREATED as EQUAL.

The reality BINDER that you keep ignoring is that if the same standards were applied to women as they were to men, a lot less women would be in law enfrocement and the military. Because of genetics. Men genetically have more muscle mass than women. That's true, that's a fact. Sorry if that offends you, but it's the truth.

I am not saying women are inferior to men, I am not saying they are not equal to men. Genetically women also bear and carry children men don't,
it's a difference a beautiful difference.

Also, look at the ills of mankind, women make more money in porography than men, women drive the industry, Men competiting are what folks want to see during sports. Compare the NBA to the WNBA look how different they are, look at the attendance and look at the quality of play it's totally different.

Their are many more substanial and wonderful differences between men and women and between fathers and mothers and we need to embrace them and to work to keep them strong in our society.