Does the NBA get bad press because it's a "black league"

DDD, another look at that situation that makes me think that racism and its motivations are more intertwined when it comes to the NBA.

Actually, fighting in basketball was relatively commonplace (in that it happened from time to time) in the 60s and 70s. The more Black the sport became, the less acceptable it became. Why? The same did not follow for baseball or hockey or even the NFL.

But in the NBA since it has become highly black dominated, all of a sudden fighting is barbaric and deserves ridiculous punishment, 18 year-olds do not possess the life skills to be professionals (never hear that in baseball, tennis, or hockey, all still very white by preponderance), and NBA players cannot be trusted to dress themselves WHEN NOT PLAYING.

Similarly in the NFL, now one cannot celebrate, or make exaggerated gestures after plays, even though Bret Favre's throat slash gestures were pooh-poohed and the king of after sack dances was Mark Gastineau, who was never fined or flagged to my knowledge and happens to be white. But as the league became more Black, it seems that the fans and owners want choir-boys who just play and collect theri checks quietly.

My last point has to do with the media itself. The media covering sports is OVERWHELMINGLY white, and the average age of these guys is their 50s for the big papers, so you have guys who were raised in a different time racially, definitely before the Civil Rights movement. To believe that all of those guys harbor no bias is silly. I am more inclined to believe that most of them harbor varying degrees of bias, with a very small number close to outright hatred of Blacks. This condition does not lend itself to fair reporting.
 
Rampage said:
DDD, another look at that situation that makes me think that racism and its motivations are more intertwined when it comes to the NBA.

Actually, fighting in basketball was relatively commonplace (in that it happened from time to time) in the 60s and 70s. The more Black the sport became, the less acceptable it became. Why? The same did not follow for baseball or hockey or even the NFL.
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I can accept that as the absolute truth, but in my eyes those players, whilst are victims of racism should try not to give the 'whomever' any material to say anything or do anything negative towards them. I just feel that some of these black players have to accept some of the blame themselves.

The way I see it is like this, I go to work, I aready know that if I take a longer lunch break, get to work late or leave earlier than I'm allowed, even though there may be a white/asian colleague doing the same, chances are the manager is going to single me out first or if someone notifies the manager they will forget to name the white/asian colleague who is doing the same thing.

Call the above a chip on my shoulder, but that shit happens Worldwide whether anyone wants to admit it, so my solution is not to give them a reason. I do my job to the best of my abilities, I arrive, leave on time and I take my designated lunch break. I don't care what the others do, if there was the offer of promotion those same colleagues would sooner stab me in the back to get ahead so I don't give them anything negative that they could use against me.

Example: There is this guy (my age) who turns up to work in jeans and a shirt, they asked me to do the same... Hell no, I wear a suit or strictly and religously trousers/slacks (I think is the correct English to American translation), polished shoes and a pressed shirt. I tried to wear jeans once during Christmas, they didn't treat me right - familiarity breeds contempt so I keep them mofo's uncomfortable and professional.

Now I know sometimes you can't help it, you are dragged into these situations unwillingly or just plainly victimised but it still doesn't remove the fact that the entire roster of NBA players aren't victims and some have only themselves to blame.

No they shouldn't receive the bad press, harsh penalties they do when they act up, but take responsibilities for actions, if you know they gonna treat you harsher than most or

18 year-olds do not possess the life skills to be professionals (never hear that in baseball, tennis, or hockey, all still very white by preponderance), and NBA players cannot be trusted to dress themselves WHEN NOT PLAYING.
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On these issues, well that's the just the state of your countries social structure to even accept that kind of thing or even allow that kind of thought is unthinkable. However Football/Soccer Clubs insist a dresscode for club affairs (in the end during Club time or events involving the Club - not just playing for - the player still represents the Club) so I advocate the dresscode. However being told what to where in your own time (with no sponsorship deal), isn't that an infringement on human rights surely?

Similarly in the NFL, now one cannot celebrate, or make exaggerated gestures after plays, even though Bret Favre's throat slash gestures were pooh-poohed and the king of after sack dances was Mark Gastineau, who was never fined or flagged to my knowledge and happens to be white.
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I can't comment, my only comparison is proper Football/Soccer where there is the same ban in place to stop players potentially teasing the oppositions fans into riots.

The media covering sports is OVERWHELMINGLY white, and the average age of these guys is their 50s for the big papers, so you have guys who were raised in a different time racially, definitely before the Civil Rights movement. To believe that all of those guys harbor no bias is silly. I am more inclined to believe that most of them harbor varying degrees of bias, with a very small number close to outright hatred of Blacks. This condition does not lend itself to fair reporting.
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This is a brilliant point that I completely agree with. It's absolutely true.

Sometimes the negativity cannot be helped and the people dishing it out don't even realise. Still as black people who hope to be a proud race, I feel though these people will always target us, say things about us even when not warranted we should not give them any further material by acting badly ourselves.

On the issue of fighting, if its not part of the rules, walk away be the bigger man because the bigger picture and reality is that by reacting, said reaction would only serve to help perpetuate the racism that is already in place to hold our race back. "If your not part of the solution then you're only part....." well we know how that ends
 
I understand your point, but the problem that i have is this:

We as a people have to understand that we cannot simply accept that double standard. people are lawed, imperfect, so when we simply say that we should accept the higher standard, we accept guidelines which will in the end victimize us. I know that wrongdoing has consequences, but we are failing as a group (people of African descent) to say to the status quo that we will no longer accept the unfair "edge of the cliff" situation that so many of us espouse.

Take your job, for example. What if you made an HONEST mistake that was against company rules but a very minor violation? Unfortunately, it is likely that there will be a harsher penalty for you vs. whit colleagues. That situation is just as racist as any other, but I am finding that too many of us simply accept it, thinking (or hoping) that we never fall below the elevated standard required.

NBA players have the same right to make mistakes, get angry, fight as young men do and be remorseful without the additional scorn heaped on by a society that has yet to fully come to grips with CENTURIES of abuse and unfair treatment.
 
So what your saying is that because it is that way, people no longer are accountable for their actions, because the subsequent reaction is a racist one? Isn't that playing the race card?

Look I understand that it shouldn't be that way (the whole received racism), I will never merely accept that racism happens and will speak loudly when I see it.

However 'we' must look to ourselves sometimes even in the light of racism aimed towards us and be accountable for our actions. Sometime black people acting 'poorly' only serve to perpetuate racism. Why give a racist a reason if that means letting yourself down?

Edit: - I need to add: It shouldn't be that way but 'it being that way' in no way excuses the behaviour of some simply because they also receives racism.
 
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I'm just saying that if it's tolerated in other sports why not basketball? I guess you're right in that the answer should be that it SHOULDN'T be tolerated in ANY sport. But since it is tolerated in others I fell it may as well be tolerated in basketball too. I guess you could say I'm excusing them but it's not really what I mean. Do you get what I'm saying.
 
No I don't see what your saying to be honest.

I look at it like this:

The Racism shouldn't be there and neither should the bad behaviour of players. Period. Neither excuses the other.

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On the issue of work, black people not doing their jobs properly make it harder for the one's that do. It doesn't excuse the pre-conception of the Manager who may treat his black staff unfairly compared to whites an I will speak out against the unfair treatment. But I will not defend the black staff member who wasn't doing their job in the first place. In the end they are employed to do a job and by not doing it, they do not help to re-write the pre-conception, granted it shouldn't be there in the first place. But I will only defend victims.

It's like two murderers one white, one black and both proven that they are guilty, now the white guy gets life and may see the light of day, the black guy gets the chair. Now yes that shouldn't happen, it is totally unfair. But you know what, he killed someone I ain't defending him, serves him right.

So on the issue of staff, yes it is unfair that black sports star's get treated unfairly but if they acted up in the first place then I will speak out against the action taken against them ut in no way will I make excuses for their behaviour.
 
Let me rephrase. I'm excusing their behavior because if it's excusable in other sports why NOT basketball?

In relation to the analogy you made, by your definition then YES I would defend the black murderer. I wouldn't EXCUSE him of the crime he committed, but I would look for EQUAL punishment. Which is all I was really asking for when I brought this up. Don't give me some bs 1 game suspension or more then likely NOTHING but a penalty in football, and then turn around and suspend me for 15 games for the SAME THING in basketball.
 
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The only sport I know where fighting is accpeted (except boxing) is hockey.

If it isn't allowed in the rules then that's the way the sport is to be played. Regardless of what other sports are allowed, that's like saying in American Football you can pick up the ball, why not in Football/Soccer?

And I know of no other sport that allows mis-behaving athletes. Each sport has their governing bodies, with their own set of rules and levels of punishment seperate from other sports. A better argument would be, a black Basketball player gets such a ban for doing whatever and white NBA player gets a lesser punishment for the same thing. Then if that can consistantly be proven over a period of time, even I will shout 'its bloody racism'.
 
DDD, not fighting IS part of the rules in the NFL, and in MLB, and yet both have WAY more fights a year then the NBA and the players get MUCH smaller punishments. All the while the media glosses over incidents in the two other leagues yet Carmello Anthony gets press for over a week and a 15 game suspension. It's ridiculous.
 
Just would like to make the point that just because someone was alive before the civil rights movement (and a 50 year old would have been 3 years old in 1960) does not mean that they are naturally racist. It's not like civil rights happened and turned the world non-racist lol

As for the old-time basketball and fighting, I can only personally speak to the Pistons when Isiah was there and everyone thought they were thugs, and I know people today who still think that about the Pistons because of that era. But hey, let's face it, they were brutes, which is why I liked them :D

Oh also, when talking about someone like Bret Favre who has such a rep for being straightlaced golden boy, of course he's going to get special treatment when he does something stupid. It's not because of his race but because of his fame. I hate the NFL now where nobody can do anything with getting penalized.

But it does seem like this conversation is shifting from "the NBA gets a bad rap because it is the black league" to "black athletes in general get a bad rap"?
 
True on both counts Vil. But if the world had not been preponderantly racist in heart, deed, and law then we would not have NEEDED the Civil Rights movement. Pair that with the well said point of yours that it did not suddenly make people non-racists and you add to what I'm saying quite well.

As for Bret Favre, he gets special treatment due to his fame. But that same fame affords many Black athletes scorn and derision when they have done no worse than Favre. So his race has also been of benefit to him.
And DDD, I can understand in a way what you are saying, but that attitude is a racists dream. Everyone of color must strive to demand that we are ALL treated equally for the same offenses. The fact that we have done little about the death penalty is the main reason why death row is full of people of color who killed whites while notorious killers who preyed upon Blacks (some purposefully) get life OR LESS.

In addition, it makes sense to say never get in trouble. But you must understand that the translation is total. If you do not make the case for equal treatment, the Black speeder on the highway spends a night in jail and loses his job while the white speeder gets a summons, goes home without arrest, works at his job to get an attorney, and doesn't even have to sweat the offense.

I agree that the focus of the topic has shifted, in large part due to the reality that this topic mirrors life in uncomfortable ways.
 
Not to overuse him as an example, but Tiki Barber could have pulled the Favre and gotten away with it. Chad Johnson couldn't. * shrugs *

And I'm not saying that racism doesn't exist, or that it doesn't exist in sports. I just don't agree that the only reason people pay attention when there are fights in the NBA is that people think of it as a "black" league.
 
Tiki Barber DID pull a Favre (by pondering retirement during the season), and he was blasted by the media as a distraction to the team, despite being not only its best player but one of the best performers in the league.

Meanwhile Favre will drag this same crap out again this year, with little fear of media reprisal even though his performance has been that of greatly diminished capacity.

And I whole heartedly believe that the average white person is more likely to be disgusted and frightened by two large black men fighting than two large white men. Hence the NBA's difficulties...
 
I don't think race is the only reason the NBA gets so much attention for fights, I just think it's the biggest. I compare it to the two closest leagues (the NFL and MLB) and the biggest difference between the three is the race of the biggest stars. Fighting is no less against the rules in the NFL or MLB and yet the media not only makes a much bigger deal about it in the NBA but the punishments are MUCH harder on the players.
 
Rampage said:
Tiki Barber DID pull a Favre (by pondering retirement during the season), and he was blasted by the media as a distraction to the team, despite being not only its best player but one of the best performers in the league.
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Did you read that article about him last month in SI? He says he said he was going to retire to a friend in confidence and then suddenly it was all over the media. He hadn't planned to tell the team or anyone until after the season.

Rampage said:
And I whole heartedly believe that the average white person is more likely to be disgusted and frightened by two large black men fighting than two large white men. Hence the NBA's difficulties...
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See, without trying to sound racist lol...I think that is totally backwards. I think two white guys duking it out is much more "disgusting" to white people than black people. Just being honest. I'm talking like older people, cause for me fighting is fighting, but say my parents' age people.
 
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