Civil War

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willblade

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Ok..so the big Marvel event of the year, maybe more is here. Avengers Disassembled, House of M, and more all led to this..who's checked it out so far, and what do you think? I think this has the POTENTIAL to be one of the best things Marvel has put out in a while. It'll definately change pretty much everything in Marvel U. So..thoughts, comments, predictions?
 
This is not ridicule, but 'potential' I feel is such a limiteing word for this title. The concept moves the entire mainstream Marvel Universe out of the aged black and white ideals of good and bad and propels the Marvel Universe into a more realistic persepctive where everything is grey.

This title actually questions what is doing good and is it ok to help when it isn't your place. On my site there are endless arguments about 'who's right'. But the general opinion is that like Infinite Crisis this is nothing less than a tribute too the industry.

Even if only one issue out of seven has come out so far.
 
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So far with only one issue in the can I am pretty happy about Civil War. This could have turned out to be another rehash of the Mutant Registration Act or the original Super Hero Act but instead Marvel finally grew a pair and had MAJOR heroes support the act. Guys like Ironman, Mr. Fantastic, and Antman all being of genius lvl intlect, two of which are co leaders of the most famous teams in comics, The Avengers and The Fantastic Four.

I have but one issue so far with Civil War but it will be a MAJOR one if it is handled the wrong way. On the other site I am in the EXTREME minority of the site in that I SUPPORT the registration act and that while I do see it as invasive, I also see it as a necessity. There are plenty of people that are dismissing it entirely claiming that NOTHING good can come of it. And THAT is the issuethat I am talking about.

Why would you accept heroes (which are inherently good) supporting an act that you believe to be inherently bad? It doesn't make any sense when you put it into that context, and frankly that's the only context you can put it in. The fact that it is hero against hero is the back bone of this event. So the fact that they are fighing each other HAS to be believable or the whole thing is garbage.

That's why I don't think it's as simple as simply choosing a side and seeing it as one hero's opinion against yours. The fact that they are indeed heroes and inherently good makes it implausible that they would support a bill that's inherently bad.

That trivializes the whole thing because you have no reason at all to believe in the conflict being as it's caused by something that would never happen if the bill is in fact inherently bad. The bill must have some kind of merit for it to be believable that any heroes (particularly big shots like Reed, Tony, and Pym) would support it enough to resort to "Civil War".
 
Oh I love the back and forth your having on MD! You are a a one man army on there with a tactical nuke for each and every member..lol

I see what your saying. My stance on the situation is that you are not wrong, I've said it to Hyperion many a time. It's a multisided argument with good points and bad points on either side of the argument. Personally I refuse to say that any one side is any moe right than the other. The very nature is that each side of the argument adheres to the personal level of each character.

(Ironically I think Wolverine should be for the act, though he has been a product of a government, he has seen the horrors that can produce. So I feel the fact that they are made accountable for their actions should hold sway over Wolverine. But portraying him like that would be a bold move).

If your argument is that because some heroes are supporting it therefore it can't be bad, then no I don't agree. You have to look at the types of Heroes who support the act and those that are against it. You have to ask why some have and some haven't and ultimately you have to look how it would affect the hero.

It is too easy to say that the counter arguing side has been thrown in to add more substance too the story, the fact is they have and they have been initially divided into type.

Hank Pym, Reed and Tony Stark aren't your classic heroes the first two definately aren't. They may see a certain nesscessity in the act but they are hardly going to loose much like the street level heroes.

That said I cannot disagree with your arguments for I just cannot decided on such an argument because the situation doesn't affect me personal. In the end it is a situational argument with no right or wrong, answers I believe are to be found in how the situation affects the individual.

In conclusion:

Captian America surfing an Aeroplane was cool!
 
I've never been a big Capt fan myself, but I couldn't agree with him more. If the Act goes into effect then the gov't would tell them who the bad guys are. Plus with the obvious widespread corruption and incomptence that is plain to everyone it'll take less than a minute for someone to cough up a list of secret identities, (of course Fury's known most of them for years already), and Pete's burying Aunt May, again, in a month. The Act is a good intentioned idea but a bad plan in execution.

Oh yeah definitely a real world marketing ploy, it will not change anything in the MU, they don't have the brass for it.
 
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What happened to Aunt May?

I can see the need to make heroes accountable for their actions, I worry about who is incharge of their actions, who gives the orders. I could argue that it turns Superheroes into Supersoldiers as seen in Ultimates (and we know how controversial that is going to get). But the point is a valid one.
 
Someone bad guy I think figured out who Spidey was and used and actress to fake her death so Pete thought she was dead for a while if I remember correctly. Didn't read it got it passed on second hand so I need verifcation from a Spidey fan.
 
So anyone following along still with civil war? it's definately getting interesting, and the newest Wolverine issues (issues 44-46 especially) definately sheds some light on the situation and starts to really bring to light what's really going on with the whole situation.
 
Lawless said:
Someone bad guy I think figured out who Spidey was and used and actress to fake her death so Pete thought she was dead for a while if I remember correctly. Didn't read it got it passed on second hand so I need verifcation from a Spidey fan.
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This was ages ago - when Mac Gargan became Venom.

Osborn got jailed and so a plan of his went into action whereby Aunt May was kidnapped, drugged into a state whereby she can remain alive but asleep, and was buried in a grave.

Spiderman tried to find her with the aid of Rachel Summers/Grey/whatever and she saw the burial so told him May was dead.

Turned out she was alive, but he didn't find out until after he recieved a beating from the Sinister Twelve, including the new Venom, but was saved from death by the Avengers.
 
Remember when Marvel advertised that they'll show both sides of the conflict in a way that'll give both points of view equal merit and tolerance.

And then they decided to make the Pro-Registration teams dicks?

I'm sticking to DC/Vertigo from now on. Least their Crisises only happen once every 20 years.
 
Sebastian'sArrow said:
Remember when Marvel advertised that they'll show both sides of the conflict in a way that'll give both points of view equal merit and tolerance.

And then they decided to make the Pro-Registration teams dicks?
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to be fair, many of the "Pro registration" teams/characters ARE dicks. Iron-man is a lackey waiting to happen and Reed is a sellout. he may be intelligent but obviously he has never had much of a personality.

I'm sticking to DC/Vertigo from now on. Least their Crisises only happen once every 20 years.
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LOL! i hear that...and they dont have nearly as much retconing as they do in Marvel :rolleyes:
 
Spellbinder said:
to be fair, many of the "Pro registration" teams/characters ARE dicks. Iron-man is a lackey waiting to happen and Reed is a sellout. he may be intelligent but obviously he has never had much of a personality.
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That's my main beef with it. I think Ms. Marvel is the only character on that side that I actually thought had some merit and it looks like they're working on turning her anyway after the conversation with Emma/Capt. America. If they split the teams evenly, I'd have been more happy but I'm just not feeling the other side (which I should because it's a totally legitimate point).

Spellbinder said:
LOL! i hear that...and they dont have nearly as much retconing as they do in Marvel :rolleyes:
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I'm just bitter with Marvel with their licking ass of Joss Whedon and letting Chuck Austen man the helm of X-Men. It's obvious they just care about the financial side of things.
 
I agree so far it has been very one sided.

There was great potential in that faux-Thor could have been Donald Blake and then we (the reader) would have been blessed with a counter argument about the dangers of dual/secret identity superhero and how being a masked hero could ruin a regular persons life. As such is the life that Donald Blake has had to endure during his time as Thor and himself.

That said I am not going to knock this Marvel Venture, after Dissassmebled, House of M, Decimation I cannot complain. Meh what am I saying Civil War has been fantastic!!!!
 
I honestly didn't think HOM was that bad, I was a lot more disappointed by the fact that the only two major character's to have lost their powers (Iceman, Polaris) got them back within a year. And yeah I know 'technically' Polaris doesn't have her powers back but give me a break, it's an implant from Apocalypse that simulates her powers. For all intents and purposes it's the same thing.

Any way on to Civil War, while Reed and Tony have been dicks in the past, it's NEVER been this bad. Neither have done anything really WRONG in their respective careers unless under some sort of foreign influence. Now we have Reed making clones (I'm sure the others helped but Reed is the one with the activation and deactivation codes, and the only one actually SHOWN working on Clor), using BIG NAME villains (seems more Tony or Pym's idea becuase of the use of nanites) to track down renegade heroes, and of course the only death is cuased by the pro-reg side. I was supporting this BIG time before it was released and was one of the few arguing pro-reg on message boards but it's reached the point here Marvel has painted the pro-reg side as purely evil while the anti-reg sides are saints.

This isn't a civil war any more, it's not the good guys vs good guys battle this was billed to be. The writers have instead turned it into a run of the mill good guys vs bad guys story and I have VERY little hope that they're going to turn it around in the remaining 3 issues.
 
i couldnt believe the way Ms. Marvel and Wonder Man were trying to KILL Arachne/Spider Woman II while she was trying to get herself and her daughter out of the country, all because she refused to register?

I thought Ms. Marvel had more BRAINS and INDEPENDANCE than to be a sellout toward her own kind.
 
It is hard to see where Civil War is going. We know Spider-man defects and there is the formation of the Mighty Avengers (truly the most powerful collection of heroes that my memory can recollect).

But I would have loved to have seen a dual-sided argument in and amongst the action. It is like Miller forgot the Heroes who have actually had to suffer because of a Secret Identity and the Heroes who have actually benefitted. In my opinion Spider-man and Wolverine shoud be standing right there next to Captain America's shoulder. It would have truly been creative if they included Dr Donald Blake as a fully aware Thor arguing and fighting for the pro-registration side, he to my knowledge has been amongst the most to suffer by having a truly seperate dual identity. Also where the hell is Hulk Banner being hounded by the Government ever since he was G-bombed is one of the most compelling arguments against the Registration-act to leave him out just seems wrong.

For me the return of Thor (even if it is a clone), the unmasking of Spider-man, Sue Richards walking out on Reed and the modern day shake up of an old old industry has made for great story telling, but as a whole seems to have missed the target which was to capture the tension of what a true Civil War implies within the Marvel Universe.

i couldnt believe the way Ms. Marvel and Wonder Man were trying to KILL Arachne/Spider Woman II while she was trying to get herself and her daughter out of the country, all because she refused to register?
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Julia Carpenter has a daughter? Who is she and does she have powers? And who is the Father?
 
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Spellbinder said:
i couldnt believe the way Ms. Marvel and Wonder Man were trying to KILL Arachne/Spider Woman II while she was trying to get herself and her daughter out of the country, all because she refused to register?

I thought Ms. Marvel had more BRAINS and INDEPENDANCE than to be a sellout toward her own kind.
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This is all I've really seen of the modern Ms. Marvel and why I'm so hesitant to pick up her solo series.

The best issue of Civil War was, IMHO, the spat between Emma and Carol where Emma tells her in no uncertain terms that the X-Men won't be joining Stark's side along with mental images of several massacres.
 
yes, ms. marvel's crossover into civil war has me liking her less and less. i couldnt believe the way she was acting. but remember, in Days of Future Past, she was also working for the government to help destroy mutants. she commanded psychic hounds and more, so maybe she's just a sell out all the way around.

as for Arachne/SpiderWoman II's daughter...her name is Rachel and the father is dead now. He was a senator or some other political type figure and Julia met him while working with Valerie Cooper as a special forces agent for th government. They fought bitterly over custody of Rachel back when Julia was on the West Coast Avengers team.
 
I'm a bit muddled with the continuity, but Ms. Marvel in the Days of Future Past timeline may have had very good reason to be pissed off at Mutants, being victim to Rogue, however with the current timeline it seems she has gotten over the entire thing and instead of using it as motivation for Civil War (which would be very good motivation when you think about it) they just choose to lump her into the Tony Stark's side for no real good reasons.
 
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Alright..so Civil War #7 is finally out..thoughts about it? I'll post mine up in a bit so i don't spoil it for anyone..yet. :p
 
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