A new 'Jim Crow'?

[Karma]

More Black Men Now in Prison System than Were Enslaved

"More African American men are in prison or jail, on probation or parole than were enslaved in 1850, before the Civil War began,” Michelle Alexander told a standing room only house at the Pasadena Main Library this past Wednesday, the first of many jarring points she made in a riveting presentation.

*videos included in the article

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I saw this from a blurb in one of my news feeds. I read it and it was very riveting. It begs the questions/opinions from me: do people REALLY believe that the majority of crimes are committed SOLELY by black men in this country? Facts/figures aside...what do media outlets like Fox News (operated by the racist Koch brothers) tell its viewers (and they dont fact check, they just believe).

"The War on Drugs" is a farce. Ive been saying this since highschool. You had "teen idols" like Corey Feldman going on TV promoting "DARE" and things like that all the while being a pothead. Let it had been a black teen star and his career and (likely his freedom) woudve been smashed. The War on Drugs is an excuse for cities/states to find ways to make revenue/fill the prisons and the reality IS they target black communities or black people "who dont belong" in high end areas (profiling).

Has anyone noticed how there's now a "PRISON INDUSTRY?" companies (some of which might shock you if you knew who) are now building AND staffing prisons as if they were "administrative" holdings and treating this like a money maker and they LOBBY lawmakers in the states they take root to keep the laws as they are or change them to cause MORE people to be incarcerated and thus filling their prisons. that's CRAZY to me...capitalism gone out of control for sure!

 

[Clara Oswald]

Is it better, though, than releasing criminals onto the streets early jsut because there's no place to house them in the current prison system?

 

[Rampage]

It is if they are all criminals. Potheads are not criminals. The poor, who are less likely to have quality legal representation, are not criminals.

 

[Karma]

Is it better, though, than releasing criminals onto the streets early jsut because there's no place to house them in the current prison system?

but WHO are the criminals is what i'm getting at. Fox news and other "sources" paint with a broad and erroneous brush suggesting that every young black man dressed a certain way is a thug or drug runner etc.

the "current" system is broken and "prisons for profit" are not the answer.

there are many people in prison who dont belong there and yet you see plenty of examples (like the gentlemen's case who went to the supreme court recently) of law enforcement officials WILLFULLY ignoring or supressing evidence that would exonerate these people. there's more like him that dont ever get to be heard and die in prison.

part of solution, i think, would be to rexamine ALL cases where there is more than reasonable doubt. if there was evidence supressed etc...every single one of those cases needs to be examined and if approprite, the person released immediately. that would help with overcrowding, among other things.

 

[Black King]

of course there are so many African Americans in prison, they're the primary targets for law enforcement. In sociology and criminology the Net metaphor explains that there is a socially constructed image of crime that is used to definite crime. Then law enforcement throws out the net that catches anyone or anything that fits the image and holds them while everything else slips through the cracks. Black men and women are simply caught in the net more often then other ethic groups (except Hispanics might be on the rise) cause they fit the image of criminals then get stuck in the cycle

 

[Karma]

It is if they are all criminals. Potheads are not criminals. The poor, who are less likely to have quality legal representation, are not criminals.

thats why i say "the war on drugs" is a joke. it hasnt made any kind of SOCIETAL change for the better. it just opened the door for racial profiling and a faster, easier way to herd blacks (and other minorities) into a broken justice system that's already stacked against them.

and "getting a lawyer" is far easier to say than it is to do. i'm a white woman and i dont make a "ton" of money and when i had a harrassment/discrimination/retaliation fight against a former employer (that lasted for 11 months) i was hard pressed to get a lawyer. its NOT as easy as it sounds and there are alot of reasons for that. think how it is for a truly poor person who doesnt know (or know enough to research) and doesnt have the means to even try.

the "war on drugs" was a way to find new sources of revenue for various levels of gov't. it hasnt changed ANYTHING on the ground except make it harder to be a minority in this country.

 

[Clara Oswald]

Well please give me the number of "potheads" who are a part of that statistic and then we'll talk.

If you're going to re-examine cases with reasonable doubt, then ALL cases need to be re-examined, not just those involving minorities. JUST because someone is a minority, it doesn't mean that they're innocent. Let's not exchange one form of racism for another.

And I wasn't saying that *I* think it's better to privatize the prison system - just asking the question, cause that's the trade off.

 

[Karma]

if thats how my statement read, my mistake.

im not saying minorities are innocent by default HOWEVER i AM saying that minorities, particularly black men disproportionately compose the majority of the prison population and there has to be a reason for that and its NOT because they commit the majority of crime in this country. they dont. plenty of facts/figures bare that out but what is the prevailing attitude of most people when it comes to this discussion?

the man whose case i was referencing (i need to find the article) was a black man who was wrongfully accussed and incerated on death row in 1985 despite evidence that would have cleared him. he's just NOW getting released because of that. he's one of the lucky ones. there are others who need this kind of 2nd look as well and this would help unclog the prison "overcrowding". its not JUST blacks...but they are certainly the most numerous in the system. though the article isnt about this- how about all the illegal immigrants that are in our system? here in nashville alone- the courts are CLOGGED DAILY with cases of DUI involving illegal immigrants. why not just round em up and DEPORT THEM then and there instead of sending them to jail here and wasting our tax payer dollars? i dont know...but SOMETHING needs to change.

and I wasnt saying *you* were saying "prisons for profit" are the answer either. I just wanted to put it out there because i dont think people are aware of that "industry" and it seems rather repugnant to me.

 

[Clara Oswald]

im not saying minorities are innocent by default HOWEVER i AM saying that minorities, particularly black men disproportionately compose the majority of the prison population and there has to be a reason for that andits NOT because they commit the majority of crime in this country.

Let me just play devil's advocate here for a second: how do you know that? Maybe they do. The statistic could be wrong, but do you honestly believe THAT many innocent people are in jail right now? It's possible, but there's not really any evidence to support that.

the man whose case i was referencing (i need to find the article) was a black man who was wrongfully accussed and incerated on death row in 1985 despite evidence that would have cleared him. he's just NOW getting released because of that. he's one of the lucky ones. there are others who need this kind of 2nd look as well and this would help unclog the prison "overcrowding". its not JUST blacks...but they are certainly the most numerous in the system.

Yes, people wrongfully imprisoned is AWFUL but I'm not sure it's in enough numbers to make a real difference. It's definitely something where measures should be taken to try and eradicate it as much as possible.

I think the fact that so many PEOPLE are in prison right now is the appalling thing, not what race the people are. Maybe it all goes back to discussions we've had before on how people are brought up these days that we're seeing such an increase in crime, and also unfortunately that "prison culture" is glorified and made out to be a right of passage in many cases. People need to once again be AFRAID of going to jail the way they used to be.

and I wasnt saying *you* were saying "prisons for profit" are the answer either.

I just wanted to clarify that I was just asking that for the sake of the discussion and not that that was my personal viewpoint.

 

[Karma]

Let me just play devil's advocate here for a second: how do you know that? Maybe they do. The statistic could be wrong, but do you honestly believe THAT many innocent people are in jail right now? It's possible, but there's not really any evidence to support that.

well any available statistics ( from the FBI: FBI )
aside, how is it that blacks, which only make up 12.5 % of the population could possibly be committing such a VASTLY higher amouts of crime? Blacks are outnumbered by whites 7 to 1 in some instances and yet they are somehow responsible for vastly higher numbers of crime? doesnt make sense to me. We also know that when it comes to rape/murder(particularly serial killers)- the predominant perpetrators are white males age 20-35. We know that the majority of men who batter/abuse their spouses/children are white men as well. but inspite of all this...the statistics show one thing but then you see these same people doing the LEAST amount of jail time.

I believe this wouldnt be happening the way it is if not for things like "war on drugs" etc which opens the door for racial profiling.

Yes, people wrongfully imprisoned is AWFUL but I'm not sure it's in enough numbers to make a real difference. It's definitely something where measures should be taken to try and eradicate it as much as possible.

agreed. but as for how much a difference? even a drop in the bucket is a start and far better than going with the status quo.

I think the fact that so many PEOPLE are in prison right now is the appalling thing, not what race the people are. Maybe it all goes back to discussions we've had before on how people are brought up these days that we're seeing such an increase in crime, and also unfortunately that "prison culture" is glorified and made out to be a right of passage in many cases. People need to once again be AFRAID of going to jail the way they used to be.

Yes I agree when you say "PEOPLE" because there are WOMEN and others as well across the board.

however, again, you cant overlook the fact that the majority of the prison population is black men and apparently now more black men are in prison than were slaves pre civil war...that is a shocking thing to me. what does that say about our country? "prison culture" indeed, but for me its not the same as what you might be getting at. america incarcerates more people than any other country in the world and yet it has no impact on changing our society for the better. now its becoming an industry itself and that to me is appalling.

I personally dont know anyone who sees going to jail as a right of passage. Most people I know ARE afraid of going to jail, hell I'M afraid to go to jail lol. I don't think I'd make it.

Some people I know are AFRAID to even go down the street now because they may be targeted for who they are/what race they are.there are stories that come out all the time about people (young, gay, black, hispanic, even women) who are targeted for harrassment/brutality by police. people who have no records, no weapons on their person, are not being belligerent etc.