White Queen vs Martian Manhunter

Karma

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Years ago I would have put classic claremont Psylocke against Martian Manhunter instead but b/c this here seems more interesting:

White Queen aka Emma Frost- The bitch in heels. Part of the violent coup that forever changed the face of the Hellfire Club, major villainess that menaced the X-men & New Mutants for years only to later find herself an unintended ally to the X teams during the Phalanx covenant & ultimately reform to become head misstress of Generation X. She is one of the few survivors of the mutant holocaust that occurred on Genosha & has gone on to become a core member of the X-men, eventually earning @ least the trust & a measure of respect from most of her teammates if not their friendship. She also has the dubious distinction of being a homewrecker, doing to Jean what Jean did to Madelynne, stealing Cyclops.

Powers- The White Queen is now one of the premier telepaths on the planet, possessed of enormous psychic ability. She also possesses a transiamorphic organic diamond form.

She is capable of extraordinary psionic feats, including the telepathic standards of: broadcasting and receiving thoughts, mind-control, altering perceptions and memories, psychic shielding, astral projection, mind switching, brain engram modification, mental sedation, and induction of mental pain via touch. She is also able to boost or activate a mutant's powers through access of their brain's neurological pathways, and can communicate across global distances unaided. To be fair, The exact level of her telepathic power has varied depending on writers and has ranged from weaker than other prominent telepaths such as Psylocke, Phoenix IV & Marvel Girl III to rivaling the abilities of Charles Xavier himself. She has also been referred to as a "psi of the highest order," been ranked among the five most skilled telepaths on the planet, and has demonstrated the ability to overcome more powerful telepaths, such as Nate Grey, or Rachel Summers, through greater experience and skill. Later, under the writing of Matt Fraction, Emma was classified as an "omega-class" telepath"

During the mass murder on Genosha, Frost manifested the 2ndary mutation to turn into an organic diamond. In this form, Frost is translucent and retains mobility while being nigh invulnerable and able to support incredible amounts of weight, though different writers have shown varying accounts of her strength. Her diamond form was at least strong enough for her to tear out of bonds and, in a single punch, send Lady Mastermind soaring across a room and straight through a wall. She has been shown in some instances to be able to even lift up and THROW Colossus while in Diamond form , as well as being able to stand toe to toe, trading blows w/ a Nimrod sentinel.

Emma's diamond body is virtually tireless as she does not produce fatigue poisons and has no need for water nor food. She is also numbed from emotion, pain and empathy, impervious to cold, and resistant to heat in this form. Despite this high level of invulnerability, her diamond form has a single molecular flaw, which if exploited – such as being shot with a diamond bullet – can cause her body to shatter. Though the exact location of the flaw in her diamond body has not been stated outright, clues point to it being located in between her eyes.

Frost's full range of abilities between her diamond state and regular form have been inconsistent; however, later occurrences depict that Frost cannot access her psychic powers in diamond form, explained by different writers as either a distinct genetic flaw or suppression by her diamond form's adamantine luster. Depictions have also stated that Emma has a degree of telepathic immunity while in diamond form, though the extent of this immunity has been portrayed inconsistently as well, ranging from total shielding from psychic invasion to vulnerability to psychic attack. Her diamond form is also stated to emit low-level ultraviolet light, causing it to glow in darkness. In her Diamond form, Frost was one of a precious handfull of X-men The Hulk could not outright destroy in his conflict w/ them. While in her diamond form, her mind is effectively closed to telepathic domination but this too has been depicted inconsistently by different writers.

Frost has a gifted intellect with college degrees in multiple fields, including a Bachelors of Science in Education with a minor in Business Administration from the prominent Marvel Universe's Empire State University. A superb businesswoman, Emma Frost for many years was founder and CEO of Frost Enterprises, a major multinational conglomerate headquartered in New York City that rivaled Stark Enterprises and Worthington Industries and specialized in shipping, aerospace engineering and new technology R&D.

Frost is also a highly capable planner, an electronics expert, and can invent machines that grant various psionic abilities, such as "Multivac", a mutant locater capable of monitoring the psionic levels of mutants; the "Hallucinator" used to induce hypnotic hallucinations to brainwash others; the gun-like device that enabled her to exchange minds and powers with Storm; and the Mindtap mechanism which enhanced and enabled her Hellfire cohort Mastermind to project his illusions directly into the mind of the Phoenix

Notable battles: Violent confrontation w/ Phoenix II; Mind/Body swap w/ Storm which resulted in a brutal fight where Storm nearly murdered her, later, she & Storm had a grudge match and Storm nearly shattered her diamond form; She & Phoenix IV had a psychic catfight over Scott Summers & Phoenix left her catatonic & incontinent. She later had a psychic catfight w/ Marvel Girl III but overpowered Rachel in a telling defeat due to her superior skill & experience (which is rather questionable considering Rachel's own level of skill during her time as Phoenix III); Attempted to mind control Magik but could not penetrate Magik's psi screen, panicked when Magik attacked her w/ the soul sword in retaliation.

Weakness/Liability: Despite her icy exterior & bitchy dry wit, Frost is rather emotional & vulnerable. Frost was traumatized deeply following a violent confrontation w/ Phoenix II in the events leading up to the Dark Phoenix Saga. She has been shown to experience prolonged periods in a comatose state throughout the years following that. She was further traumatized when Trevor Fitzroy & sentinels murdered her students, the Hellions, while she herself was once again left comatose. She is a survivor of the mutant holocaust in Genosha & suffers from Survivors Guilt. A liability that Phoenix IV painfully exposed & it was later used against her & the X-men by Cassandra Nova's vengefull psychic ghost. Frost has many personal "frenemies" among the X-men who bear deep grudges against her including: Storm, Shadowcat, Dazzler, Marvel Girl III, Magik & Moonstar. While her teammates tolerate her & in most cases, respect her battle/strategy skills, most do not like or trust her & certainly do not regard her as a friend. Frost was also deeply insecure about her physical appearence & has had extensive cosmetic surgery. Like most high order telepaths, Frost is especially vulnerable to sonic attacks & her diamond form has been shown to be vulnerable to some weapons/projectiles made of vibranium. Frost's Diamond form has a single genetic flaw, which if exploited, can cause her to shatter. This happened to her when one of the Stepford Cuckoos shot her w/ a diamond tipped bullet, effectively murdering her. She was telekinetically reassmbled & revived by Phoenix IV.

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Martian Manhunter- from bizarre debut as a minor character to being a core member of the Justice League, this super powered alien is among the most exotic members of the Justice League & DC's gallery of characters. Despite his intimidating appearence, J'onn is rather benevolent & even tempered. This perception of him was deeply challenged when is psychotic twin brother temporarily supplanted him. He has been described by Superman as "one of the most powerfull beings on the planet." He's often substituted for Superman when a physical powerhouse was needed on the JLA or JLI. In recent years he was given something of a sense of humour.

Notable battles: Braniac, Despero & D'Kay D'razz. D'kay was an especially bitter confrontation for him & he ended up strangling her before finally forcing her into the sun. Darkseid- their history is long & deep, starting from when Darkseid invaded MM's homeworld. Malefic- MM's psychotic twin brother, driven insane by Darkseid. After traumatizing various members of the JLA & the earth itself, MM & his brother engage in a brutal battle. MM wines but at nearly the cost of his own life.

Powers: Similar basic powers of Superman- strength, flight, speed, super breath, durability. Also "Martian Vision" which was later defined as a sort of telekinesis or concussive energy blasts that come from his eyes. His strength level has varied through the years but he is generally perceived as a physical powerhouse. MM is a megamorph, even to shapeshift into forms human & non as well as elongate/manipulate various parts of his body in various ways. He can even alter the chemical composition of his body.J'onn can become intangible, passing harmlessly through solid objects. He can also render himself invisible...though at one point he apparently lost the ability to become invisible. MM has been shown to have regenerative abilities, at one point even being able to regenerate his severed head, though with GREAT effort.

He is a powerful telepath, capable of both perceiving the thoughts of others and of projecting his own thoughts. He often acts as a "switchboard" between minds in order to coordinate the Justice League's actions. The extent of his telepathic abilities is great; several times he has connected his mind to the entire population of Earth.

Aside from his superhuman powers, the Manhunter is also a skilled and very capable detective. As Batman mentions in his file, "in many ways, Martian Manhunter is like an amalgam of Superman and the Dark Knight himself."

Weakness/Liabilities: Has been depicted having extreme pyrophobia & weakness to fire. overall lack of consistency in the presentation of his powers & their overall levels through the years. characters with strong enough psychic defenses or outright psi screens (like plastic man) are not at all hampered by his telepathic abilities. MM has been shown to be susceptible to extremely powerfull energy based attacks on some occassion.

So who takes this? The ball busting ice queen "omega level telepath" or the truly out of this world mysterious psychic alien?
 
I'd give MM 7-8/10 on this one. While the White Queen is powerful, the skill sets in my mind don't work out very well. MM, as a powerhouse with effective defense against her best power set, is not a favorable match for her IMO.

I could see her perceiving his fear of fire and DESTROYING him mentally with it maybe a third of the time, but the rest of the time I don't see how she will do it. And even then only in the most powerful of her incarnations. In HIS most powerful incarnation MM is said to be capable of destroying the entirety of the JLA and nearly did in fact.
 
For me, I think the White Queen has demonstrated a much more detailed & intricate use of her psi powers. she's quite powerfull, especially know. we both know that but you & I ( i think) can agree that she couldn't/shouln't be able to beat Marvel Girl III/Phoenix III, who is more powerfull & yet (just as some writes of the WQ have highlighted) the White Queen has managed to defeat both Marvel Girl III & X-man due to her depth of experience & application of her psi powers.

Admittedly I have never followed MM specifically, only when he's shown in JLA, but when I've seen him using his psi powers, its largely been in a "utility" type way. There have been examples of him being ultra offensive w/ his psi powers, like Avengers vs. JLA but even then, he just didnt seem as pronounced & deliberate as WQ is shown to be.

What's to stop her from "turning off" his powers by telepathically blocking his access to them like she did Cyclops, X-23 or even Xavier himself in WorldWarHulk.

WQ is smart, calculating, devious & in her earliest days was shown to have in depth knowledge of the mind & its workings. To discover that MM has a primal fear? I think that would be all she needs to wreck havok OR she might do it in the more subtle, deep & permanently deadly way like she did when she dealt w/ X-23's tormentor. That was very harsh, even more so than anything Psylocke or Phoenix II had done to someone during their prime as telepaths.

I think if MM didn't hit her HARD right out the gate, WQ would overpower him in number of ways w/ a multifront psychic assault, not the least of which includes using his phobia of fire against him.

MM is not always depicted consistently w/ his power set/level...but that happens to MU characters as well, particularly the women. So let's assume both of them are depicted in TOP FORM. It's going to be a long & harsh battle that will see both of them even physically effect by the psychic warfare. My feeling about the outcome is that when it comes to the psychic fire fight, it'll be a matter of who has the stronger WILL. that's what it usually comes down to when the telepaths or psychics involved are evenly matched.

On the physical side, White Queen is well nigh invulnerable in her diamond form. She's never been shown to be effected by Shadowcat's phasing ability while others have been shown to be shaken or even caused pain by Kitty passing through them. Would MM be able to harm her w/ his while she's in diamond form? I know his power is more akin to Vision's but since I've not seen or read any direct confrontation between Vision & the White Queen I don't know for sure but I have the feeling She'd be immune from that kind of an attack in diamond form.

At first glance it seems MM would be physically stronger than WQ. I've seen him get mad & cut loose on Superman & nobody, not even Wonder Woman could really stop him. But in WQ's defense, She's been shown to be able to lift/press as little as 50 up to as much as 75 tons in diamond form. it's varied among different writers, but again she's been shown to be able to pick up & THROW Colossus & She's taken DIRECT HITS from HULK & even HE noted that she survived & remained upright.

Her FIGHTING/UNARMED combat skills leave something to be desired though (you'd think loverboy cyclops or wolvie wouldve trained her by now. wolvie trained storm years ago & look how legendary she became using her skill when she lost her powers), so that's most likely going to be her big set back there.

Physically, I don't think she would beat him outright. She'd certainly be able to protect herself though. I think her victory would come in the psychic confrontations.

6/10 in MM's favor but w/ the strong possibility of an upset by WQ.
 
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