US Government shuts down - WTF?

But I feel like this is what I have seen for a LONG time now in politics. It seems like instead of WORKING towards a goal, BOTH sides seem to just want to "spite" the other. It's become less about what is IMPORTANT for the country and has become "which party is in power" or "holds the cards". And that kind of thing drives me crazy.

We don't get things done because no matter WHAT the idea or plan of action is, the other side has a huge problem with it, and it gets bogged down into all this bullshit. Plus I feel like with Obama's presidency coming to a close, EVERYBODY wants to be this rainmaker or to be the one "clear candidate" for the presidency.

Instead of working together, we've reached this far LESS important thing of "what party has the power" which has led to both parties being almost incapable of working together. We are placing so much power on this "POWER STRUGGLE" that we aren't being effective.. I mean when we get to the pissing contest that is now and we have to SHUT DOWN our government??? There's a problem and it's not just Republicans or Democrats, it's EVERYONE involved in this "game".

Totally agree with what you said :)

Obama won the Obamacare fight fair and square.

See, I have a problem with this way of thinking. It should be about doing what's right for the country, not who won or lost. And if we can amend the ACA and make it work better, then why not do that? (I'm not saying what the sect that's blocking the budget is right in their demands, but in general why NOT be open to improving the ACA?) We needed to change healthcare, but we also need to be able to pay for it and make sure it does what it needs to do with the least negative effect on the economy as possible. There ARE problems with the ACA. And it IS costing Americans their jobs right now, before it's even kicked in - I see it at work every day.

Ramapge said:
Many Republicans specifically are delusional about who won the Presidential election and why.

Because there wasn't anyone better? lol

Rampage said:
Obama won and people want what he is offering.

Yeah because it sounds goods when you don't have to think about how to actually make it work in reality lol.

Winning the presidency doesn't mean - as Obama thinks its does - that you just get to do whatever you want. The reason this group is able to hold up the budget, right or wrong, is because of intentional checks and balances in our system to prevent any one branch from being able to do whatever they want. Like it or not, these people were ALSO elected. And largely elected by people who opposed the ACA.

As Brandon said, the partisanship has destroyed the ability of the government to do anything. And the President is too embroiled in that to be able to be the mediator he should be.
 
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I don't want to pass judgement or debate politics I'm not properly informed about but I'm wondering is why there seems to be such widespread hatred against 'Obamacare'? Affordable healthcare... How can it be a hot button topic? Enough to cause something huge like this! I don't get it...

b/c ppl are willfully ignorant & dont wish to educate themselves, they'd rather vomit the talking points of the fear mongering pundits on fox (a.k.a. faux news) instead of learning what the patient protection affordable care act really is & how it could help them.

ppl had similar reactions when medicare & social security were passed & implimented (especially medicare) NOW if you were to even suggest medicare were to be dismantled, ppl would be ready to go to war! :haha:

this law is going to allow MILLIONS of ppl access to quality healthcare coverage, some for the first time in their adult lives! no longer will ppl be forced to answer INVASIVE questions about their health & in turn, be PUNISHED w/ exhorbitant rates b/c of their answers. ppl who will qualify may also see much of the premium cost covered by subsidies they may qualify for (especially in states that will be expanding medicaid to encompass this)

but even w/ all of this & the rest, in a best case scenario, america will STILL be woefully behind other countries like australia, the netherlands, canada & other PEER countries were quality healthcare is a RIGHT, not a corporate funded priviledge.
 
I don't want to pass judgement or debate politics I'm not properly informed about but I'm wondering is why there seems to be such widespread hatred against 'Obamacare'? Affordable healthcare... How can it be a hot button topic? Enough to cause something huge like this! I don't get it...

Well it's a radical change in how our health system is structured and how we deliver healthcare (actually to more closely resemble European countries' systems). How insurance companies and the government health insurance reimburse healthcare providers for service is going to change to try and shift people to lower cost services (like preventative care) and away from high cost tests and procedures (like say getting an MRI).

So there is the government cost which it is paying for largely by increasing taxes. Business are now being forced to provide insurance to their employees or pay a penalty, and for individuals who don't have insurance through their employer, they must buy their own coverage.

A lot of companies have started dropping health coverage for their employees, which the proponents of the ACA didn't expect. The President has extended the deadline for companies to get their coverage in place by a year.

What the Republicans who are in opposition right now are asking for is that the mandate to make individuals carry their own insurance if their employer does not be extended by that same year period. And also that Congress be held to the same healthcare as everybody else under the ACA (currently their have their own separate plan paid for by the government).

b/c ppl are willfully ignorant & dont wish to educate themselves, they'd rather vomit the talking points of the fear mongering pundits on fox (a.k.a. faux news) instead of learning what the patient protection affordable care act really is & how it could help them.

lol I could say exactly the opposite about the Democrats. It's great to want to have universal healthcare. And we need to overhaul our system before the baby boomers get any older. BUT it has to be paid for somehow! And it IS going to be a burden on regular Americans so let's try to not fuck over the economy while we do it.

Though don't forget that the ACA helps everyone but the very poorest people who need it the most ;)

The fact of the matter is that the Republicans have backed down on asking for repeal of the ACA, and asked for reasonable concessions from the Democrats that they have refused to consider. So who's not compromising?
 
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thanks! figured I needed an American's perspective to understand it better :)
Compromise on the ACA is not happening nor should it. It is a LAW not a suggestion.

People who are dying because they do not have health care should not have to wait. This is not a check and balance in government because this has nothing to do with actual voting in Congress and everything to do with a procedural move by the Speaker against the will of the majority of Congress.

The House Republicans have been offered the budget they demanded down to the decimal point and now they want a crack at Obamacare or they wreck the country. So who is failing to compromise now?
 
Caroline Forbes said:
]Well it's a radical change in how our health system is structured and how we deliver healthcare (actually to more closely resemble European countries' systems). How insurance companies and the government health insurance reimburse healthcare providers for service is going to change to try and shift people to lower cost services (like preventative care) and away from high cost tests and procedures (like say getting an MRI).

So there is the government cost which it is paying for largely by increasing taxes. Business are now being forced to provide insurance to their employees or pay a penalty, and for individuals who don't have insurance through their employer, they must buy their own coverage.

BUT it will ALSO allow those who are the lower end to have access to higher end procedures such as tests or even medical procedures, particularly in the states where medicaid is being expanded. its not just a "limited benefits" option for lower income ppl. & many who will have to buy their own plans, will more than likely have most of the premium cost covered by subsidies. reports from states that have already implimented the ACA have shown the average monthly rates are turning out to be LOWER than even gov't estimates. TN is one such state.



A lot of companies have started dropping health coverage for their employees, which the proponents of the ACA didn't expect. The President has extended the deadline for companies to get their coverage in place by a year.

most of the plans that companies were dropping were "limited benefit" plans, that really didnt do much anyway but dent a person's paycheck w/ a monthly premium while still saddling them w/ HIGH co-pays & often NO help w/ prescription cost (@ best, there'd be a deductible & IF that was met w/in the calendar year, THEN these plans would only cover about 70% of the cost of prescriptions, which is OFTEN not that helpful). These same companies are shifting those employees to the health insurance exchanges opening under the ACA. So its not as though the employees are being cast to the wind w/ no options or even a way to explore those options.

What the Republicans who are in opposition right now are asking for is that the mandate to make individuals carry their own insurance if their employer does not be extended by that same year period. And also that Congress be held to the same healthcare as everybody else under the ACA (currently their have their own separate plan paid for by the government).

that was only AFTER they couldn't get their way to defund it or reppeal it, which they've been trying to do to the point of EXHAUSTION for the past 2 years.



lol I could say exactly the opposite about the Democrats. It's great to want to have universal healthcare. And we need to overhaul our system before the baby boomers get any older. BUT it has to be paid for somehow! And it IS going to be a burden on regular Americans so let's try to not fuck over the economy while we do it.

well you wouldnt be offending ME ;) Im not a democrat :D yes, overhaul is needed. & this ACA is a long overdue, much needed step! HIPAA was the step before this, MEDICARE before that...& in both cases...there was all this uproar but now BOTH previous steps are valued & necessary.

the economy was already fucked before this...& that didnt happen on obama's watch. studies show that ACA will help LOWER the deficite- among other things, reducing medicare costs by up to $50 BILLION over the next decade alone!

Though don't forget that the ACA helps everyone but the very poorest people who need it the most ;)

I recognize that :( TX is a prime example...where i think its 1 out of every 4 ppl don't have insurance or access to it b/c they are so poor & Perry has refused to cooperate w/ any of the provisions that could help RELIEVE some of these ppl via the ACA even though his is a state that is one of the HIGHEST in need & estimates show that rates for TX residents would be well below the national average. Same thing w/ Virgina.



The fact of the matter is that the Republicans have backed down on asking for repeal of the ACA, and asked for reasonable concessions from the Democrats that they have refused to consider. So who's not compromising?

well they had to. it passed the votes legitimitely in 2010 & then the supreme court upheld it. the fact that continue to make it an issue that they use for leverage & obstruction is unconscionable.

what they're asking for arent concessions...they want to dillute it to the point that it's useless. they want to defund it so that it CAN'T be paid for. the $ for it was already approved by the original vote & upheld by the supreme court!
 
Compromise on the ACA is not happening nor should it. It is a LAW not a suggestion.

lol Obama unilaterally changed something like 17 provisions in the law after it was passed, which you aren't actually allowed to do under our system. And I *believe* those 17 include the provision the republicans are trying to get taken out with regards to Congressional healthcare.

This is not a check and balance in government because this has nothing to do with actual voting in Congress and everything to do with a procedural move by the Speaker against the will of the majority of Congress.

If that were true, then it would be a moot point because that majority of Congress would pass it without the changes to Obamacare.

The House Republicans have been offered the budget they demanded down to the decimal point and now they want a crack at Obamacare or they wreck the country. So who is failing to compromise now?

The Democrats lol.

People aren't dying because they don't have healthcare. This is all about paying for it. No one can be turned away from an emergency room or denied a procedure for lack of insurance.

Obama already extended the date for the big guys, the companies (read: his campaign supporters) so why not extend it for the little guys, the individuals too? The answer is because then he couldn't use this as a lifeline to drag his administration out of the toilet and get positive public opinion as he places the blame solely at the hands of the republicans.

Honestly, what the Republicans should do is just pass it, let it go into effect, and let all the problems become painfully apparent. Then in 2014 no one will disagree with repealing it. Hopefully the holdouts will realize this sooner rather than later.

We need healthcare reform, we need to insure the uninsured, but the ACA just does not work and cannot be fixed. It is too contradictory, complicated, and over-regulated.

BUT it will ALSO allow those who are the lower end to have access to higher end procedures such as tests or even medical procedures, particularly in the states where medicaid is being expanded.

The problem with that is that many states are choosing NOT to expand medicaid. So those below the poverty line are no eligible for subsidies or Medicaid.
 
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