Phoenix & her Allusions

[Karma]

Phoenix. Claremont & Byrne gave us to her.

You have the Phoenix II, III & IV continuity. Factor in the 1986 retcon, Madelynne Pryor & then fast forward nearly 20 years later to Grant Morrison and Gregory Pak began to slowly but definatively undo the retcon and present the development of Jean's 2ndary mutation being her ability to channel the full power of Phoenix. She died & following Endsong...she's presented as "white phoenix of the crown".

Many Phoenix fans were not happy with all of this and it seemed to cheapen the impact and longstanding legacy of Phoenix. She's been gone now for 6 years (real time- just about as long as when Phoenix II committed suicide till the team X-factor began) and yet she still haunts the X-men and the multiverse in someways, Hope apparently being one of them.


Aside from the debate on whether Phoenix is relevant and means the same as she once did...what about the metaphysical allusions and implications?

Claremont referred to the Tree of Life when Phoenix II repaired the mkrann crystal, stating that phoenix was the root of all life. when Phoenix II committed suicide on the moon, there was a little vingette (that has now been incorporated into official phoenix canon ) that followed where she appears in the afterlife and has a conversation with Death herself. Death (years before morrison) alludes to Phoenix being "the one" and never truly able to die and that jean is forever phoenix and phoenix forever jean etc.

more than a decade later morrion and pak slowly undo canon established /changed by the 1986 retcon to say that phoenix IV (jean herself) was in fact phoenix II and jean is ultimately the white phoenix of the crown.

i actually allowedmyself to read all of endsong. then i went back and read dark phoenix saga and that vingette. it wasnt until a claremont interview i read that i began to notice the allusions to kabbalah with regard to phoenix. claremont lightly does so but morrison expanded and went further with it.

what do you think about "white phoenix of the crown" and its meaning? what does it say to you about jean and her connection to the power of Phoenix?

 

[Rampage]

It finally manages to try to undo the retcon bullshit where they tried to put Phoenix back in the bottle.

I loved the Phoenix era because the mutants went to far way galaxies and defended the universe...made sense to me.

IMO no major arc should happen in the MU without major mutant involvement and no cosmic threat should show up without major mutant response. Otherwise it is pretty stupid.

 

[Karma]

It finally manages to try to undo the retcon bullshit where they tried to put Phoenix back in the bottle.

but did it really do a good job of that? some significant AND good effects came w/ phoenix II's suicide and the controversial 86 retcon- the beyonder, phoenix III, madelynne pryor.

the first attempt to bring Phoenix II/IV back was in 1999 shortly after apocolypse & the 12 and the editor in chief shot it down. Phoenix IV (Jean) was showing signs of turning back/into Phoenix in FACT as well as name but it wasnt till several years later that Morrison went ahead with it but the way he handled it really magnified this perception of "phoenix being a crutch" rather her being a truly powerful, landmark , fearsome character along with the ongoing the confusion of which Phoenix jean actually was ( II or IV). By the time Phoenix IV was reality...she was struck down by Magneto ...which flew in the face of Phoenix II whipping his ass and making him cower with FEAR all those years ago. She died...and Endsong made people feel like jean/phoenix was just a merrygoround of death/resurrection. that isnt what claremont wanted at all. that isnt what phoenix fans wanted and there's an entire generation of readers who now regard the dark phoenix saga is irrelevant because of this; who dont even know who phoenix III is etc.

Endsong left us to accept that Phoenix II & IV were in fact the same and that Jean's secondary mutation was to channel the phoenix power unchecked. it seems...rather farfetched but then again the whole "secondary mutation" fad was kind of a cheap cop out in the first place imo. i mean yeah it worked for some (white queen, beast) but quentin quire? jean grey's "secondary mutation" giving her access to cosmic power via her crown chakara? i dunno.

and yet...the more i read and when i started looking into "white phoenix of the crown" and the allusion...i have to admit that maybe morrison was on to something. HOWEVER im not going to say he was the ORIGINATOR. again, claremont had been making these kabbalah-esque allusions about phoenix 20+ years earlier. NOW it was being expanded.

In the White Hot Room- we saw all the hosts of Phoenix force, including Rachel & Quentin and each host was wearing a certain color. Jean herself was wearing white, Rachel red and Quentin purple...then there were the others and their colors. based on the kabbalah-esque references, the colors are significant.

Phoenix II/IV (green)- nature, nurture, the heart
Dark Phoenix, Phoenix III (red)- unbridled power, agression, the root
Phoenix IV (white)- balance, understanding, most special, the crown

So basically...Jean (if you allow yourself to accept everything that occurred in End Song) has become centered and now accepted and fully bonded with HERSELF "she is phoenix and phoenix is she" (quoted by Death herself). She's been in the white hot room ever since, finding all the pieces of herself. she'd come together completely and thus be able to return. Marvel has stated Jean will come back but they're moving slowly with it....the thing is....CAN she come back and fit in again with the x-men??? SHOULD SHE? Because at this point, Phoenix IV is beyond anything on Earth. She's BinaryX100,000,000...a woman born human with a mutation that gave her access to a cosmic concept that is 2nd to none and NOW is supposed to be completely merged/alligned with it/herself. What would she NEED them for?? Scott moved on with the White Queen (and Phoenix was responsible for that since he initially rejected her and her offer after Phoenix IV's death and Phoenix compelled him to reverse course from where she was)...so I just dont know.

I loved the Phoenix era because the mutants went to far way galaxies and defended the universe...made sense to me.

yes! and "Phoenix" became the standard by which all other marvel women were being measured then onward for quite some time. Marvel even stated that female characters being created in the late 70s and through the 80s were sometimes being unfairly panned by fans "who were expecting a 'Phoenix' type character".

IMO no major arc should happen in the MU without major mutant involvement and no cosmic threat should show up without major mutant response. Otherwise it is pretty stupid.

i dunno..some of the shit the avengers and ff and the rest of MU get involved with doesnt warrant mutant involvement imo and while its true mutants never get the respect they deserve even when they DO have a major role in saving the world (onslaught, contest of champions II etc) part of their draw...what always made them appeal to so many was their "minority" status. the BIGGEST GRIPE i had w/ morrison outside of what he did with Phoenix was that he pushed mutants and the perception of them into the mainstream in such a way that they became annoying and COMMON and at times repulsive it BEGGED (implicity) a response that came to be House of M/Decimation/M Day.

at the same time, i DO wonder how they'd feel if THEY were confronted by PHOENIX. onslaught was one thing but PHOENIX, especially White Phoenix would DEVOUR him and anyone else pretty much. Nobody in the rest of the MU teams could deal with her...BINARY (if she was in full effect) and MoonDragon would be best served joining up w/ the mutants at that point LOL.

but all that aside....the thing i still struggle with is Phoenix and what he did with her, how it seems to both take away from AND tie into/expand on what is argueably claremont's creative zenith.

 

[Black King]

IMO no major arc should happen in the MU without major mutant involvement and no cosmic threat should show up without major mutant response. Otherwise it is pretty stupid.

Thats a bit much to me, the current era of cosmic marvel is doing very well with zero input from earth or the earth-based heroes.

i dunno..some of the shit the avengers and ff and the rest of MU get involved with doesnt warrant mutant involvement imo and while its true mutants never get the respect they deserve even when they DO have a major role in saving the world (onslaught, contest of champions II etc) part of their draw...what always made them appeal to so many was their "minority" status. the BIGGEST GRIPE i had w/ morrison outside of what he did with Phoenix was that he pushed mutants and the perception of them into the mainstream in such a way that they became annoying and COMMON and at times repulsive it BEGGED (implicity) a response that came to be House of M/Decimation/M Day.

But at the time the Morrison mutant status thing made sense, If mutants were the next stage of humanity it would make sense for their births to be on the rise and add to that the thousands of mutants across the planet, the 7 different X-titles running at the same time and heroes that came out the woodwork with the origin "oh hey we're mutants" it was impossible for there not to be millions across the globe. They way new mutants were popping up they can't be minorities forever without the current ban on mutant creation Marvel has now.